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The Saleen fan club/enthusiast club must love this event?
And still, continuing to insist that TSLA is more risky than SLNN on an EPS basis is wrong since as previously stated, TSLA's loss last year was 1% of its current value while SLNN's loss was 600% of its current value.
Under any financial metric, including EPS and revenue, TSLA is less risky and in a better situation than SLNN. No one can prove otherwise.
Also I don't know on what this comment is based on:
No. This is not how it works.
Alright OK, let's look into that.
If an educated investor commits to the theory that TSLA is overpriced based on EPS, then for consistency's sake, this same educated investor must unequivocally admit that SLNN is grossly overpriced on an EPS basis.
In 2014, TSLA lost $294 million on 125 million shares or a loss of $2.35 per share.
In 2014, SLNN lost $13.3 million on 167 million shares or a loss of $0.08 per share.
In other words, Saleen's loss last year was more than 4 times its current value. Saleen must make up 4 times it's current value in loss to turn in a positive EPS. All the while Tesla had a net 1% loss of its current value. They just have 1% of their current value to make up in loss before turning it into a positive gain.
Last year, SLNN had an EPS loss 4 times greater than the value of its stock, while TSLA had an EPS loss only marginally unprofitable (~1% of the stock). This is a world of losses to make up for compare to TSLA.
Now let's try to compare both companies loss to an even more useful metric.
In 2014, TSLA lost $294 million on $3.2 billion in revenue or a loss of $1 for every $10 in revenue.
In 2014, SLNN lost $13.3 million on $4.8 million in revenue or a loss of $1 for every $0.36 in revenue.
From this, it is pretty clear that TSLA's hill to climb in order to become profitable is a terrain significantly more easy to conquer than SLNN's steep cliff.
We could also look at what is driving future growth and current losses. For example, if last year both companies would have cut let's say 80% of their R&D:
TSLA would have made $77 million in net gain in 2014 or $0.61 per share while SLNN would still have net loss of $12.6 million or $0.07 per share.
Again, if an educated investor commits to the theory that TSLA is overpriced based on EPS, then for consistency's sake, this same educated investor must unequivocally admit that SLNN is grossly overpriced on an EPS basis. Therefore arguing that SLNN's EPS is not that bad compared to TSLA's is a counter-intuitive argument
I can't believe this? THIS IS INVESTING! You have to make financial projections. OF COURSE THE NUMBERS ARE NOT CORRECT! THEY ARE PROJECTIONS OF ONE POSSIBLE (not likely) SCENARIO.
I really can't believe this. Now it's useless to make financial projection. This what investing is about you project future growth to determine if a business is fairly valued vs current market cap. projecting income statement is an important part of that.
Again, this SLNN projection of last quarter income statement is really considered "low balling"?
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Let's say Saleen managed to triple last year's revenue during the same quarter, wow!:
$5,490,000 in revenue
Now let's say they managed to have an incredible 22% gross margin (compared to a negative gross margin last quarter):
$1,208,000 in gross profit (wow completely unheard of for Saleen)
Now let's say SLNN managed an incredible 20% decrease in R&D and SG&A vs last year's same quarter:
$2,236,000 in operating expenses
($1,028,00) in operating loss
As for interest expenses, no miracle can be done, they will inevitably go up, but since we are talking about best case scenario, let's say they will go up 2% last quarter:
($770,000) interest expenses
($1,798,000) Total loss for the quarter or ($0.01) per share (as per last float, I don't how much it was diluted)
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If I understand correctly, most agree that the model below for the last quarter is on the low side? To be clear. Saleen selling more in the last quarter than the last 4 combined is on the low side of expectations?
If this is truly SLNN's shareholders' expectations, then SLNN's PPS is in for an even tougher ride, because low expectations are always priced in the PPS and this is in no way possible to achieve.
I mean good lord, we are talking about 100 to 120 cars here. This is more than Saleen sold in the last 12 months. They would have done that in just 3 months with only $95k in the bank while at some point in the last 12 months they had $1.5 million in the bank and couldn't come close to selling that.
If this is truly on the low side of anyone expectation, some people will be very disappointed next month.
Again, I'd like for anyone else to do a similar quick model.
Really? The EPS will go up simply because revenue will go up? That's not really how it works.
Let's make a back of the envelop model here. I'm talking about a best case scenario. I'm talking miracles here.
Lets work with these numbers:
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Let's say Saleen managed to triple last year's revenue during the same quarter, wow!:
$5,490,000 in revenue
Now let's say they managed to have an incredible 22% gross margin (compared to a negative gross margin last quarter):
$1,208,000 in gross profit (wow completely unheard of for Saleen)
Now let's say SLNN managed an incredible 20% decrease in R&D and SG&A vs last year's same quarter:
$2,236,000 in operating expenses
($1,028,00) in operating loss
As for interest expenses, no miracle can be done, they will inevitably go up, but since we are talking about best case scenario, let's say they will go up 2% last quarter:
($770,000) interest expenses
($1,798,000) Total loss for the quarter or ($0.01) per share (as per last float, I don't how much it was diluted)
____________________________
There you have it. Even under the best case scenario, even if by some miracle they managed to sell for $5.5 million, Saleen will still lose $1.8 million next quarter.
But that's alright they will just use their cash on hand ohhh but wait, they don't have any.......
Please, please anyone try to make these numbers look better. I welcome any different model.
note: again these are not my predictions, they are based on what I believe anyone would agree would be the best case scenario for Saleen during the last quarter.
Are you saying it is impossible to learn about Saleen after a certain date? Why does it matter?
It has nothing to do with the assertion. You are saying Steve Saleen has no responsibility in the Saleen Inc bankruptcy. I’d like for someone to explain to me how the man that held most of the highest executive positions at Saleen Inc for more than 20 years has nothing to do with the bankruptcy simply because he “quitted” a few months before the bankruptcy. This doesn’t make sense.
From the 1980's to 2007, Steve Saleen occupied positions like chairman and ceo at Saleen Inc, but he "quits" a few months before Saleen Inc. declares bankruptcy and somehow nothing is his fault?
Please.
What is the logic behind the opening of the lab making the PPS shoot up? Why wouldn't this be already priced in the stock?
Saleen is probably quite use to be involved in failed ventures by now. Saleen Inc. Chamco and now Saleen Automotive. It's almost like there's a common denominator...
opportunity to lose a lot of money. I agree.
I’ll change my approach then. Let’s say that by some kind of miracle Saleen is the exception and of all of David Weiner’s stocks suspected of pump and dump, Saleen is overlooked and cleared of all suspicions. Let’s say that is the case, SLNN is clear of SEC scrutiny from Weiner’s involvement. (I am clearly not saying this is the case, I’m saying lets imagine)
The thing is though, Weiner is not the only red flag next to Saleen’s banner. Saleen took 3 different loans from a company called KBM Worldwide (See the 3 8K below).
As far as we can tell, these loans have nothing to do with Weiner and friends, yet this new alliance is troubling on its own. All together, these notes are worth $211,000 - $224,000 with interest. This might not seem like much, but with the ridiculous terms attached to the notes (0.6 of low 5 of 10 days), if the notes were converted today, they would get 28.7 million shares at $0.0078. These 3 notes matures in June and July 2015. We can expect tremendous pressure on the stock from these shares starting in the next 3 months.
Now who is behind this KBM Worldwide? Two brother. Seth and Curt Kramer.
These guys are not the kind of people you want SLNN borrowing from and even less owning shares of SLNN.
Seth Kramer conspired in a lender mortgage fraud case and consequently had to settled for $1.2 million and he is barred permanently from HUD programs.
United States Attorney’s Office Recovery press release: http://www.justice.gov/usao/nys/pressreleases/December11/cambridgesettlementpr.pdf
His brother Curt is no better. Out of his 2 investment vehicles prior to KBM Worldwide, one received a cease and desist from the SEC and the other was dissolved. Much like his brother, he had to pay $1.4 million to settle the charges with the SEC. A company even had to cease all relationship with Curt Kramer, from which they borrowed money, in order for FINRA to accept their reverse split. (See comment below)
This is the kind of people Saleen is doing business with…
Sources:
The 8K announcing the notes issued by SLNN to KBM:
https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1528098/000149315214003040/form8k.htm
https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1528098/000149315214003160/form8k.htm
https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1528098/000149315214003262/form8k.htm
comment janice shell - http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=112757109
That's really helpful. Htnak you. Weiner and his associates. Now the Kramers. Saleen is doing business with some shady people.
Weiner and his associates are still involved with Saleen. According to the last 10Q, they still have $2 million in senior 3% convertible notes and in January they change the conversion rate on the remaining of these notes from $0.07 to $0.02. This give them controlling shares of the company on a diluted basis.
here is 8K about the conversion rate change: http://yahoo.brand.edgar-online.com/displayfilinginfo.aspx?FilingID=10437404-1017-7506&type=sect&TabIndex=2&dcn=0001493152-15-000307&nav=1&src=Yahoo
If anyone knows something Kramer or KBM I'd like to know. I know that Seth Kramer of KBM previously settled a fraud case for $1.2 million, but I don't know much more than that.
Hi, I just find out about this board and I thought I could maybe get you guys' opinion on this situation:
There's a group investors lead by David Weiner who buys publicly traded shell companies on the OTC to make reverse-mergers with private companies in financial difficulty. They invest money in these newly merged companies at a PPS well below market price and then the usual pump and dump occurs.
These companies are mainly in the weed business, but they also did the same thing with a few other companies not related to weed like, SLNN and AHRO.
Bloomberg and the NY Post made a few reports on them:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2014-06-18/legal-pot-sets-off-penny-stock-frenzy
a series of article from the NY Post: http://nypost.com/2014/10/19/reefer-sadness-sec-sniffing-out-pot-companies-for-fraud/
http://nypost.com/2014/10/29/smelling-smoke-and-pulling-the-alarm-in-sec-pot-probe/
http://nypost.com/2014/12/12/sec-weed-wackers-sparked-growlife-fears/
Now these guys seem to have conducted the same scheme on SLNN (Saleen Automotive), but the media didn't report on then and some on the SLNN board assert that Saleen has nothing to do with this.
Now see below an image I made from the S1 of a few of these companies including SLNN. All the same investors are involved. Saleen had a lot of BS PR too. Some peopel even started rumors that there could be a partnership with Tesla.
Anyway, what do you guys think?
It is utterly ridiculous to think that SLNN has nothing to do with David Weiner and his associates’ scheme simply because it is not in the weed business. One needs to understand the nature of the scheme to actually appreciate the direct link to SLNN.
The actual products these companies are selling have little to do with the scam. Actually Atheronova has nothing to do with weed and Bloomberg threw it into the same pot of pump and dump scheme in their report on David Weiner. Same goes for GVI and DigitalFX. So Saleen Automotive is certainly not the only company not operating in the pot business to be associated with David Weiner’s pump and dump schemes.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2014-06-18/legal-pot-sets-off-penny-stock-frenzy
It's clear that the NY Post's source is from the SEC since they got the texts. Weiner never sued the Post for slander so clearly everything they reported was true.
Now the whole scheme the Post and Bloomberg described is exactly the same thing that happened with SLNN.
The exact same scheme and the exact same players.
But NO! SLNN is different. SLNN makes cars. Not WEED. This changes everything. Because clearly they can't pump a stock that sell cars. It can only work with weed.
I already provided all the necessary links in this post:
Well you hear everything... Today I learned that to some, it is unimportant for investors to know that Saleen shares the same group of investors and used to share a board member with 2 companies suspected by the SEC of being pump and dump schemes.
OK now this a untrue. Plain and simple.
This. This is completely useless information. If you are on the board of GM, you are most likely a somewhat experienced business person with some credibility. GM board members are under scrutiny.
If you are on the board of a pennystock company, it's a completely different matter utterly unrelated to GM.
Comparing GM's bankruptcy to AHRO's is useless.
Knowing that Saleen shares the same group of investors and a board member with 2 companies suspected by the SEC of being pump and dump schemes. This is important information.
Please read the date. That was from 2013. Steve Saleen doesn't own anything close to 72% of the shares now. 20 million shares diluted the stock since and now with the recent change in conversion rate, on a diluted basis Steve Saleen is not a majority shareholder anymore.
The argument is not all over the place at all. It's pretty straight forward actually. The links between Saleen and the other companies confirmed to be under SEC investigation by the NY Post are clear.
Here are just a few proof of the links between the companies: https://i.imgur.com/saHMJBj.jpg
I mean... the now bankrupted AHRO used to share a board member with Saleen.. Gary Freeman
I alreaady stated that the SEC will never confirm any investigation on SLNN.
I already provided plenty of information for any experience investor to understand the situation surrending SLNN.
Nothing is missing.
There is a direct link and this link is David Weiner. To be clear, there wouldn’t be any SLNN without David Weiner. By “SLNN” I mean the OTC ticket SLNN. David Weiner engineered the reverse-merger that brought Saleen public just like he did with a bunch of other stocks DIRECTLY reported by the NY Post to be under investigation by the SEC.
In 2012, SMS Supercar was in a terrible financial situation with $11 million in accumulated deficit and almost no cash on hand as per WTSY filings. Weiner and his associates offered $3 million and to bring the company public in exchange for millions of share below market price. Exactly like he did with a bunch of other stocks DIRECTLY reported by the NY Post to be under investigation by the SEC.
In SLNN’s public offering, David Weiner and his associates were the only one allow to offer shares as per confirmed by SLNN’S S1 filing. Exactly like he did with a bunch of other stocks DIRECTLY reported by the NY Post to be under investigation by the SEC.
Just take a quick look at this image of SLNN’s S1, PHOT’s S1, AHRO’s S1 and all the links in between: https://i.imgur.com/saHMJBj.jpg
AHRO went bankrupt last month and PHOT was halted by the SEC last year.
Let's just say I know for a fact no one will sue me for defamation for saying that SLNN is being investigated by the SEC.
No. It's not frown upon by the SEC. It's clearly prohibited to disclose any information about on going investigation or to confirm that there is any investigation. That's clear, but that also entail that once we confirmation by the SEC it's already too late for investor. Now they have to rely on retribution which can take years, that is if it ever happen.
This is why every now and then information is leak and it lets investors know to stay away.
In this particular case, it has been been very clear to stay away from SLNN. That's why I have been telling everyone to stay away from SLNN. Anyone who listened is now safe from a 99% lost in value.
Simple logic indicate that the SEC investigation is real. NY POST got access to Weiner's texts. Weiner's lawyer confirmed that they were indeed his texts.
How would the NY Post would have gotten the texts? Is this another News Corp scandal?
Most likely from a leak from the authorities able the lawfully obtain these texts. In this case from the SEC. Why would the SEC have Weiner's texts? Because they are investigating him.
Weiner did the exact same thing with SLNN that he did with all the weed stocks PHOT, DIGP and so on.
He got 47 million shares of SLNN for $0.07 (later converted to $0.02) when the stock was trading at $0.50.
This is the exact same scheme he did with the weed stock and he brought in all the same investors, Fred Knoll, Eric Stoppenhagen and his nephews.
This is so suspicious. It is obvious.
The investors who are conducting this scheme don't care wheter Saleen is in the weed business or the automotive business. The companies they use are just vehicles for their scams.
Weiner is involved with all this as reported by the NY Post and Bloomberg and this guy also happens to be the person who engineered Saleen's public offering and he and his associaters are still major stockholders in SLNN.
Knowledge from the filinfs was more than enough to predict the fall in PPS (which is the only important thing in term of an investment). I can't say the same for those who based their investment on their knowledge of the cars... Whoever might that be.
There's no direct link to SLNN, but the NY Post revealed that one of SLNN's biggest shareholder is being investigated by the SEC for schemes very similar to the one suspected on SLNN.
All these "facts" are trumped by the fact that SLNN was a poor investment that fell from $1.00 to now $0.01.
You agree "1000%" even though it is a known fact that there's virtually no short interest on SLNN?
I think we can all agree that SLNN has flopped. It went from $1.00 to $0.01. It is a flop.
First of, no one is shorting SLNN. Short interest is public and disclosed bi-monthly. It can be look up pretty easily, but it is very difficult to find shares to short on the OTC. At the last reported date of March 13, SLNN had 0 share short.
Careful not to confuse short volume and short interest.
Secondly, the negative posts have little to do with the current stock price of SLNN. You say you invested at $0.32. This means that you thought that Saleen was a good investment when it was worth $35 million. It simply wasn't worth that. At that point Saleen had only $2 million in assets and $9 million in debt. You simply over paid for a bad company. The company is now worth $2 million.
Two words: Toxic notes
What do you do with toxic debt? You dump it as soon as possible.
KMB Worldwide, Inc.
LG Capital Funding, LLC.
JSJ Investments Inc.
Rock Capital, LLC.
Vista Capital Investments, LLC
Coventry Enterprises, LLC.
Typenex Co-Investment, LLC
JMJ Financial
These are all the firms that lent money to Saleen last year in exchange for short term convertible debt. Together they lent over $1.2 million to Saleen. These notes are set to convert into close to 100 million shares.
These firms don't work together. They are not trying to make a long term investment. They want a return on their money quick and now knowing that all these other firms are here to do same, they will all rush to sell their newly converted shares before an other does and put even more pressure on the stock.
Some people with a lot SLNN shares know very well that this is coming and soon. The first of these notes will convert this month, then more this summer and none stop through 2016-2017. So these people, I'm referring to the group of investors from the reverse-merger, they have been selling and this is why the stock now sits at only $0.01.
Saleen's entire business last year revolved around selling debt. Without it they would have been closed by now. The people buying debt from Saleen will have ended up never paying more than $0.02 for a share of Saleen while OTC investors have been paying $1.00, then $0.50, then $0.40, then $0.30 and so on. This is a fact.
Now that the stock is below $0.02, Saleen clearly seems to be unable to close on more debt financing. Of course, since it's not attractive for the kind of deal these company are making.