add Jahuel - April 17th, 2014.

NEW CONTEST - Guess when JBII will drop to sub penny.....
Copy and repost with your guess.

1. BJ Cooper - Sept 12, 2014

2. zeptepi - November 27, 2014

3. arvitar - June 14, 2014

4. guzaling - Never

5. Big Guy - June 2014

6. Jahuel - April 17th, 2014. (added by the Big Fella)

I said nothing about requiring a building. Usually these things are outside. It does not require a building. I remember seeing a picture of a unit that was built UP, and was meant to be erected outside. Maybe it was not Agilicks.

I think both of these units (Agilicks and JBI) are too big for practicality. They are more like showpieces or experiments than something that can be sold.

Has Agilicks sold any units to anybody?

I think in their current form they would simply get in the way, occupy too much floor space, and attract too much overhead.

10 Years of experience in Capital Projects along with several stints working on construction sites?

Another poster posted the fact that if they were to build on an RKT site, for example, if it is a Union shop, they will have to pay Union rates. That is called a Closed shop and that will be applicable almost anywhere.

I have worked for several Large companies, notable in Industrial gases. They are referred to as the Owner. The Owner, when they decide to undertake capital projects, procure services from Subcontractors to execute the work and buy equipment from Vendors. JBI would be a vendor.

In order to buy the equipment as a part of the Capital Project, they need to have the product shipped with a full set of plans so that it is constructible, and with a Users Manual for safe operation. Does JBI have a full set of plans? I know that it is modular, but IMO it is not compact enough to be saleable.

The Owner will contract with a construction company or an EPCM (Engineering- Procurement- Construction Management) company to execute the work. Any construction company will demand top dollar for their services. They will be Unionized.

Also, if it is a Fortune 500 company, such as the one that I worked for, Safety will be a part of their culture and also integral to their business success. Any subcontractor that works with them will have to conform to the same standard. There is no way that they can have a bunch of guys screwing around with forklifts for what is a crane job. I am not sure the reasons why it is integral to their business success, I just know that it is. I think they pay insurance for Workmen's Compensation, but I am just guessing. Companies do not like fatalities or Incidents. it is bad for their image and morale, and also costs money.

I worked at a mining company several years ago that had a fatality while I was there, and has had several since. It hurts their image, and the stock price.

That is where my "nonsense" came from. Does that answer your question?

I have to *laugh*, but that is mean...LOL

Big Guy June 2014.

Bake: Try to keep up will you? Haven't you seen Gravity? The Chinese station went into the atmosphere. It was hanging low!!! JBI's misery is all Sandra Bullock's fault.

is the "A' company Agilicks? I still don't know whow to spell it.

At least I know what I don't know. Just an impression based on my 10 years of experience in Engineering and Construction and from what I have read about JBI. I have seen pictures of the JBI and Agylix unit and that is good enough for me to make my comments.

How do you spell Agilicks anyway?

The space it takes up wherever it is erected. I remember seeing a pic of the Agilyx unit. It was built UP, not ALL OVER so it looks PRETTY. The Agylix unit was tall and compact, and built to be set in place with one crane. It is called "constructability"

I remember the photo of a couple of bozos wearing no PE struggling to set the first major piece of equipment, some kind of vessel. They were sruggling to get it out of the container it was in. It was clearly a crane job. Lucky they didn't get killed.

I have the impression that JBI has built it's existing plant with on-on-union labor, and JB. And, a zoom-boom that they now have a lien against.

If they vuild on RKT site, or anywhere else, it will have to be at Union Rates with all of the proper saftey considerations and proper procedures and equipment. That will cost more. No on will get killed doing it.

I am surprised that this did not come up 4 years ago. part of an orchestrated internet promotional campaign?

Why do you say that the goal is to make it as dilutive as possible? Are you saying that management is irrational? Then why even invest?

The needed changes are for show. He has barely made a dent on the profitability problem at the company. He needs to immediately eliminate teh SG&A and then be realistic about what kind of profitability they need fromt he Processors. They need at least $170k Profit Margin/ quarter to make this thing saleable.

Procssor $3 is not ready for prime time. it likely does not have a full set of plans and documentation that would allow it to be built by Union people, and it probably needs a redesign to make it more compact and with less of a footprint, like the Agylix unit I remember seeing. Is that the "A-company"?

No, it has *cratered*.... LOLOL

The whole original topic of discussion was the question of whether or not evil MM's can manipulate the stock price of JBI or any other stock. Evil MM's, Naked shorters, streakers for that matter.

All we have done I stalked about the mechanics of shorting. Great. I commend your knowledge. It has nothing to do with the original topic.

If someone decides to short, they are making a bet on the direction of the stock price. I think shorting should be allowed. I have no problem with it. It is placing a bet, and there is a price to be paid (the cost of capital or the interest on the loan). I say go for it.

With regards to your numbers, I do believe that there is a liquidity problem on the OTC and that individual retail investor, or a group working together, could influence the stock price by trading. Exactly as you say.

But, I don't believe that it is MMs or Naked Shorters or streakers doing it.

I think we are in complete agreement.

"The more a shorted stock = the more you can short the same stock is because your shorting power in your brokerage account goes up"

would have to be because the stock price falls, which is market-driven. Your act of shorting it does not influence that. Anyway, it is not my area of expertise, so we can disagree.

Well, basic market theory can poke a hole in any of these arguments pretty clearly. Perhaps drive a truck right through them. So, I don't believe that NSS Shorting would purposely drive any company to bankruptcy or even affect the stock price in any significant way.

What Is the expression "We will agree to disagree".

In this case..

"the most a shorted stock goes down the more you can short the same stock"

- basic market theory says that as the stock price goes down, buying pressure will increase as it becomes more attractive. There is no basis to imply that anybody can purposefully depress a stock price...

but.. I is not my area of expertise, so I will leave it at that.

Hey everyone, I am in this. Nice dividend eh? Any chance of it being cut???

True, but still does not represent a profit by the shorter IMO. just a loan, and that is dangerous.

Again, this is not my area of expertise. Although I will likely get a margin account in the future, I have never shorted a stock. I tried once and it did not happen. I was told at the time that a margin account and options go hand in hand... never done options either. I suppose having a margin account goes with shorting a stock?

From what you are saying and to use your example, the more the shorted stock goes down, the more cash you can "borrow" from it? Maybe to invest in something else and make more money? Like Fixed Income instrument?

Hugely Risky. The expression Margin Call comes to mind, but I can see why, if that is the strategy, it works on paper.

At the end of the day, if the stock does go bankrupt, isn't there still a financial Risk due to illiquidity? That "position" of being up $10,000 on a bankrupt stock, won't fool anyone.

I wouldn't do it, but I don't know what the ramifications are either.

Correct! So what evil MM is going to do that? The gain is only on paper and may be a figment of their imagination. They may never be able to get their gain. The security may never trade again. Debt-holders have first priority in the event of bankruptcy, so there may be nothing there for the shareholders, including the evil MMs that shorted it to oblivion aupposedly. Correct?

Correct!!!

that is 3 decimal places, not 5!! LOL. and it is still incorrect. It is 135% or whatever we calculated some time back.

Depending on how exactly I am interpreting your post, this is a common fallacy as well. Investors develop an assumption over time that a stock simply cannot ever go below a certain price. This is not true. Unless something changes, any stock can and will go subpenny.

Same thing happened on uWink. I remember when the stock was over $3 or something. Someone posted that it would never go to .20 as someone predicted. It did. This is a naive assumption.

Until a company is stable a R/S is probably not possible. JBI is in freefall. Steadily down. In order to sell refinance, they must have some credibility. In other words, at the very least break even. They can't even do that.

With existing plant, they need to almost completely eliminate the SG&A. Doesn't matter is it is "non-cash", one-time, whatever. Enough excuses. It is YOUR money they are spending.

The company that wentr 1:100 was breaking even at .05. Stayed there for about 5 years.

Maybe I did not finish the argument. I will finish yours.

I would suspect that JBI would go 1:10 or even higher. I had one that was breaking even at .05, and they went 1:100.

Your numbers are correct. So JBI has a $.50 share price, and 20M outstanding shares.

Great share structure!! Next step, issue new shares. ie printing money. Issue 80 Mllion shares at whatever price they can.

Meantime, share price falls from .50. Simple fact is, as you put it... they now have a loss of .40/ share. That much further to go before a positive PE... therefore price will fall back to .10.

It is like a money printing press.

I posted on another stock (uWink) for years. It went t0 2.50 after an event (opening a restaurant). Then they announced a 2:1 R/S to take it to 5.00, and a 2-year Quiet Period prior to the opening of the second restaurant. Then they did an issue to raise capital. By the time the issue came out, the price had fallen such that all they got in the offering was 1.25/ share. The price had fallen from 5.00 to 1.25.

I may have the facts wrong... maybe it fell from 2.50 to 1.25, then they did the R/S to 5.00 and issued shares,.. not exactly sure.

It went subpenny. Who in their right mind would not have taken profit with the anounce ment of a 2-year Quiet Period, a R/S, all of that?

Well, again, I am not an expert at the technical details of trading...

if the company goes broke, then what you are saying is that the security stops trading and becomes illiquid. And yes they don't have to report a capital gain. But don't they still have a huge loss or dead money for years then? I have some stocks sitting there that did that to me in my personal account. I would rather sell them before they go broke rather than lose the cash and have them sitting on my books for years before they sort themselves out and maybe result in something I could trade.

I got a circular last night on a stock I have not thought about for 2 years. Someone bought them. I have no idea whether or not my shares are trading anywhere. No way of recovering any money.

I sell a stock that shows the first hint of bankruptcy, illiquidity, or serios problems. I don't have time to worry about them. I will take a loss in doing that if that is what it means.

Implementing a Reverse Split helps management solve their cash flow problems, but screws existing shareholders. Proponents of a Reverse Split say that it does not matter because the dollar value of a shareholder's shares does nto change. But...that is not true in reality for a money-losing company. If a company is making money, then it is true. The PE ratio does not change. However, if a company is money-losing, the shares have that much further to go until they have a positive PE, therefore the price will fall after the Reverse Split to a level that reflects that.

If a company is losing millions per quarter like JBI and they do a R/S, now each share is losing that much more, yet is a multiple of the original price... not a good thing.

When I get my circulars in the mail about a "special" meeting I immediately look if a Reverse Split or Consolidation is to be approved. If it is, I abandon the stock immediately.

THe next step after the Reverse Split is issuing more shares... as the share coutn is reduced, it is like printing money.

Now JBI... even at 100:1 (one of my companies did that this year).... it would still be difficult I think.

Not if they do Reverse Split.... it may be their only choice.

The basic idea behind the job of an "Operator" in any industry is that human beings are fallible and safety is paramount over Production. Operators are taught to follow procedure regardless of whether or not they agree with it. This is because although highly trained and knowledgeable, they might not understand the ramifications of any deviation from procedure.The Procedure is documented in the User's Manual.

So I take it that the operators here are examining feedstock and eliminating any that might cause problems? That is not the job of an operator, that is material handling. Or incoming Inspection.

So, there is tons of opportunity for human error here then? And all of this is because JBI does not want to pay for optimum feedstock?

I am not sure if this is a saleable model, because of the liabilities and Risks.

Is there feedstock they could pay for that would not require this inspection activity?

Maybe he could train shareholders to do the incoming inspection... and pay them in free shares.. LOL. Are you guys up for it?

I would guess about 40 Million went to SG&A over 4 years, 8 Million invested in plant, the rest other, including R&D. Of the SG&A money, alot went to previous employee stock compensation (1M last quarter)... what do you make of that?

I would think that they need to be able to guarantee that the feedstock is 100% reliable. Another excuse (operator training) as to why production targets can't be met. And I agree no one will buy a processor with this situation.

baloney. Sure there are User's Manuals with anything that is sold. But the use of the word "Handbook" is again avoiding any real responsibility and commitment to production rates. Until a customer sees JBI operating the processors profitably and consistent production, they hae no guarantee that they can do any better.

A User's Manual is a contractual item intended to operate the equipment SAFELY. Nothing to do with production. And there are legal ramifications if anybody is hurt ever. Rates of production are assumed for safe operation.

Just a couple of obvious illogical statements:

"the success of a
non covered naked short .. only works when a co. ceases to exist "

How? I am not an expert in the intracicies of trading, but naked just means they do not own the underlying security when they short it correct? Well, don't they still have to buy it back? and make a large profit in doing so? so what is the problem? How is this an attempt to "kill" the company? Buying shared would only drive the price up, which would be good for the company.

"NSS has never covered >> and trading entity only has one game
left in town .. reset at every level "
How do they have only one game?

"only when mgmt can issue a sequence of material events that can't be refuted/negated on monosyllabilized .. will JBI investors see a
forced cover"
BS. When management of JBI actually does something positive and meaningful, yes some shares will probably trade and the price will go up. It has nothing to do with a forced cover.

I said I would post the spreadsheet, and I will. It is pretty simple. I have been involved in this analysis, once you have done it, it is fairly simple.

500k PR Value. Maybe the plant gets closed and Proc #3 gets parked in public view on a company's lot as a showpiece for Green manufacturing and environmentally friendly waste disposal. Profitable...???? .......... NOT!

LVRDPD ......$8.8 Million
Golfgod .....$8.5 Million
sircardinal..$8.4 Million
xxxxcslewis..$8.25 Million
4kids .......$8 Million
zeptepi .....$7,780,000.
Fishin'......$7.75 Million
capitalgain..$7 Million
corvairkid ..$6 Million
snow ........$5 Million
autumnforest.$4.8 million
fructose ....$4 Million
homerromer...$3.75 Million
Big Guy......$500k
10-bagger.. Scrap value.. $ 2500.00
sunspotter...$0 (no sale will ever be made)
arvitar......$0.00 (no sale, or completely subsidized by JBI)
adman57......$0.00 Million (ZEROIN, just ZEROIN)

Yes the expenses might be different but... use the right words... COST. The Cost is primarily the Cost of Feedstock and the processing costs. They won't change much, unless the plastic is indeed free from the purchaser.

ROI analysis includes any cash flows related to the project. So also included in that would be the savings resulting from the need for tipping fees or sending plastic to landfill being removed. That has been pointed out.

All that the potential customer has to look at now is the history of $15k profits per month. P2O has to be orders of magnitude better to be econmically viable.

Yes that is exactly what I am saying and that is exactly how any company would do internal capital budgeting. Make vs Buy is a common decision that has to be made, so in looking at JBI, they would be looking at how optimally to use the same budget that funds internal projects. Therefore it has to meet the same criteria. So, yes, I devised a simple spreadsheet that looks at an initial capital outlay and projects PROFITS (not Revenues) over 3 years from P2O. In order to BREAK EVEN, they need to PROFIT 170k/quarter. And YES, JBI is nowhere near that figure.

It is simple. Just take a negative cash flow of 2 Million in the first quarter, use 15k/ quarter for 3 years. Discount back by 4%, and look at the totals. It does not even pay off the capital Cost. $170k/ quarter does. It is simple math that any potential purchaser of P2O will do.

Wonder why JBI has been losing so much money? It is this (the basic uneconomic nature pf P2O) and the SG&A. Both are killers.

I believe that you are talking about Revenue numbers, not Gross Profit. Last quarter the p2O business made $15k in Gross profit. That is my start point. That is what know the processors can do if I am a potential purchaser.

Sure. I am going to have to take some time to clean it up and make sure the math is correct for ROI calculation, but I should get that done within 1 week.