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When I read an article like this I am afraid Catz and BKS are probably going to be right in the outcome of the escrows. The adversaries in this war are probably too powerful to overcome. Congress and all the people have been lied to and still nothing happens to them.
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/secret-and-lies-of-the-bailout-20130104?page=5
Hey Blue
I agree that most of the time they come down and close the gap, but not always. After the crash I bought Bingham Petroleum around a buck. It was trading around $18 before the fall. One day it had a gap up in the mid $3 range and I sold waiting for the gap to close, but it never looked back. The climb continued, but I wasn’t going to chase it. I think it was eventually acquired by a larger company. I lost a bundle by not staying in.
I don’t know much about charts, but not sure I see a gap. Thursday opening lower than Wednesday close, and Friday opening about even with Thursday close.
The problem is that we don’t have a taxpayer owned media. The big networks are owned by large corporations with their own agendas. Most sit in front of the tube thinking they are getting the “True story”.
BK, your response to W3Rsearch post was......
True story......
http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=106186728
http://www.bizjournals.com/seattle/stories/2009/09/28/story1.html?s=print
"At the end of June 2008, there were still $69 billion of them on WaMu’s books — 58 percent of all its home loans."
307B assets
sour loans @ 58% of total is 69B
that puts total loans at 119B
And now to AZ Cowboy it is a different story.
So instead of 119B of mtg, there is now 206B of mtg, and instead of 307B you are now saying there was 264B of assets.
The 307B must be WMI, and the 264B is WMB, which leaves 43B left over for WMI. That must be where J Nelson came up with the 30B after taking 13B out for the waterfall.
What really is the true story? I don’t think anyone knows until the story ends.
Everything is going according to the POR……ok, is the SEC operating according to their rules and regulations? I don’t think so.
Did the ratings companies operate according to their policies? No, they changed the policies to whoever was offering the most money.
Did GS, JPM, FDIC, continue in line with standard of procedure? Of course they did because their SOP breaks the rules with regularity; for which in time I hope they pay a penalty.
The EC went into mediation with the hedgies. The FDIC and JPM were excused, but it is possible that something was brought to the table about their subversive actions. If the EC has proof of fraud they will strike a deal.
I just don’t see how you can be so dead set on escrows receiving little or nothing when rules are broken on Wall Street everyday.
It has always been; who has the most leverage.
On KKR
Oracle will become the fourth Fortune 500 to have two CEOs, joining a group that currently includes American Financial Group, KKR, and Whole Foods. In the last 25 years, only 21 companies in the Fortune 500 have used the co-CEO structure. (There are, of course, companies with smaller revenue that have adopted the dual-CEO approach.) Oracle—No. 82 on this year’s list—will be the 22nd.
The dual-leader setup is rare for a reason.
It “causes conflict,” results in “negative performance by teams,” and gives the two leaders “hostile mindsets,” according to Lindred Greer, an assistant professor of organizational behavior at Stanford Graduate School of Business.
Not all of these arrangements have been total nightmares, but it’s safe to say that many of them have, at the very least, flirted with complete disaster.
And then there are other times, when co-CEOs operate relatively seamlessly.
Cousins Henry Kravis and George Roberts—two of the three founders of KKR—have overseen the best-known corporate buy-out company side-by-side for decades.
http://fortune.com/2014/09/14/biggest-organized-crime-groups-in-the-world/
specific article is lower on the web page
Possible MM's buying and selling to one another; trying to do whatever they do best.
There was no accounting or true value placed on the remaining assets after giving away the mortgages. They simply took the 188B and divided it by 100.
307B assets – 119B Mtg = 188B/100 = JPM price of 1.88B; They sold it to JPM for a penny on the dollar.
You are missing the point I was trying to make. Hypothically, forget the mortgages for now, and if something comes of them great.
I am just curious (if the article is correct) of what happened to the other 188B. I know Rosen didn’t bill that much.
I do not know for a fact, but when a bank borrows from the FED, I have heard they have to keep 10% on the books and can loan out 10x the remainder in air money. If the air money is listed as an asset, then I can see where a large sum could be deleted from the asset column.
Again, just curious if anyone knew where the assets went. Hopefully we will find out eventually.
Jestiron and Desperado
I was just trying to figure where all the assets went to. The 69B in subprime mtg was in an article that W3 Research posted. Another poster who has 1 and ½ tons of information said it was true, so for now I will go with that and agree that there was 307B of assets. I am not an accountant and maybe the deposits are listed as assets. I am wondering how they at least got dwindled down to the 30B that Justin Nelson mentioned in court. Those higher up in the waterfall got a slice of the pie, but it seems there should be many servings left over even if the mortgages were a total loss.
307B assets
sour loans @ 58% of total is 69B
that puts total loans at 119B
to ease the answer to a stupid question lets just say all the loans were bad and subtract the 119B from 307B and you get 188B assets. If the deposits are listed as liabilities and are not considered assets what else gets taken away from the 188B.
http://www.bizjournals.com/seattle/stories/2009/09/28/story1.html?s=print
Within two hours of the call, regulators took control of a company with $307 billion in assets and sold it to rival JPMorgan Chase & Co. for $1.9 billion, a fraction of what the New York powerhouse led by Jamie Dimon had offered just months earlier.
Under former CEO Kerry Killinger, WaMu had written subprime and option-ARM loans to hundreds of thousands of home buyers with shaky credit, particularly in California. The loans generated healthy fees, and the bank could offload the risk by selling them to firms that turned them into mortgage-backed securities. But when the market for those securities crashed along with the housing market in mid-2007 and borrowers were foreclosed on, WaMu and other banks were left holding large numbers of bad loans. WaMu all but stopped writing these sorts of loans in late 2007, but it was too late. At the end of June 2008, there were still $69 billion of them on WaMu’s books — 58 percent of all its home loans.
307B assets
sour loans @ 58% of total is 69B
that puts total loans at 119B
to ease the answer to a stupid question lets just say all the loans were bad and subtract the 119B from 307B and you get 188B assets. If the deposits are listed as liabilities and are not considered assets what else gets taken away from the 188B?
It's been a heck of a ride ain't it Blue. Thanks for the immense effort you have put into this over the years.
RD, If GS did sell WAMW (short that is) or if there is documentation that shows they recommended others to do so, then it would seem a breach of fiduciary duty took place. I am thinking that may have been what WMILT was going after. BWDIK
Sussman and company are rated as one of the best litigating law firms. Do you think they would risk walking away from GS with their tail between their legs? It was public knowledge they were going after them in view of the financial world, and to a certain extent the political world, and we the lowly shareholders.
Common sense tells me they are not going to risk the “walk of shame” without being 300% sure of what they had against GS.
IMO they dropped it because of a back door settlement.
T
I still have faith inWMILT
I was under the impression that most banks were selling bad loans at the time. They were wrapped up with vehicle loans, college loans, etc. and sold as CDO’s. There was no risk to the banks as the mortgages were sold to investment houses. The banks were pushing people to refinance or to get a new loan so they could collect the loan origination fees.
Goldman and probably a few others were taking it a step further and buying credit default swaps, betting most of the CDO’s they were selling would fail. If I remember correctly (according to Inside Job) that is how AIG stumbled (from GS perverse antics). When they were grilled in front of Congress it seemed it wasn’t illegal, but it certainly wasn’t ethical.
Now as far as WMILT at one point going after GS (I don’t know) maybe they did or didn’t have legal justification, but what about trying to get GS on a moral obligation. A threat of a trial by jury might bring out certain peoples names that might not want to be mentioned. Uncle Hank comes to mind.
OJ was found not guilty at his murder trial, but somehow had to cough up in civil court.
jhd51, This is "true bull".
"I intend to reaffirm the principle that no individual or entity that does harm to our economy is ever above the law," Holder said. "There is no such thing as 'too big to jail.'"
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/05/05/credit-suisse-doj-justice-department-taxes-_n_5269475.html
I’m wasn’t too excited to see JPM being depo’d by WGM. It almost seemed they were working for JPM after a certain point during the Bk. Are there a set of questions that “must” be asked, or will they go easy on them?
The authorized will be reduced by the same 10:1 reverse to 250 million. The increase will be used as explained for some great acquisitions the company has identified, funding and IR.
Can someone explain where the increase is in this, other than the SP going from .0011 to .011? Esencially nothing has changed to give the company an increase to make an acquisition.
Maybe part of the deal with GS (that hasn’t surfaced yet) was to include the “lack of evidence” statement. I just don’t see WMILT going after GS without something incriminating. Just sayin'
The next news may be factored into the price also. Regardless, when it comes out, make sure you are standing next to someone you want to impress.
What value will the exbx shares have if the technology is with a different company? Will we get some small percentage of any good that comes from this? I can't help thinking about the software, and if it was so good, why wasn't it gobbled up by large corporations or the government long ago. The price would have amounted to a few specks of dust in thier pocket. I am still hopeful though.
Yes, they are borrowing on the margin accounts; supposedly cannot borrow on cash accounts. If they make a penny on 1 million shares they pocket 10,000. Even if we all had cash accounts they would naked short the stock and get away with it since the pinks are unregulated. And, if the pinks were regulated, do you think the SEC would do anything about it? Cronyism.
Yes LG, assets in one form or another were definately trying to be hidden at that point. As for now?....nothing would surprise me.
"The analyses performed by Blackstone are not necessarily indicative of actual values or future results, which may be significantly more or less favorable than suggested by such analyses."
I think most would agree the intended value will not be "significantly less" since there were those trying to hoard the company to themselves.
I apologize for posting this from Ms. Lonstein again, but it is my favorite.
Ms. Lonstein from Blackhorse
And what's interesting about this plan is that it
13 provides for senior creditors owed billions of dollars to
14 choose to take stock in an ostensibly 100 million dollar
15 company, okay, instead of cash. Why would creditors owed
16 billions of dollars take stocks in 100 million dollar company
17 instead of cash . There must be something valuable about that
18 stock.
Beneficial Holder Ballot for class 22
From page 7,
41.6 Releases by holders of claims and equity interests
Near the bottom of the paragraph: The release set forth in section 41.6(a)(1) shall not extend to acts of gross negligence or willful misconduct of any released parties (other than with respect to the JPMC entities and their respective related persons)
Wow, unless I am reading this wrong, this makes it legal for JPM to act with gross negligence and willful misconduct.
I guess we can not go after them for fraud after exiting BK
Yea voo, I believe that too. We have to get past this charade. The hedgies wanted the company all to themselves for a reason.
Chiron, it is pretty amazing. The contrast between what we thought would happen and reality.
I remember way back before the EC was established someone speculated the U’s would go to two dollars a share if an EC was allowed at the negotiating table.
Lessons learned on how big money can be protected.
Jack, I have wondered that very thing and thought of the possibility that what they know but cannot say at this time…..(hidden assets…who knows)….. That 70% might just be worth close to face value in the not too distant future.