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More from my attorney friend (went to bed before receiving this):
Hold on, I hadn't read this yet. Wonder why Willingham is giving this up:
Footnote 14:
"For the avoidance of doubt, the Litigation Subcommittee will not pursue business tort claims released against
JPMC and its Related Persons pursuant to the Global Settlement Agreement."
Per my attorney friend:
We can still go after JPMC and FDIC, unless they buy our releases:
From page of the DS ( http://www.kccllc.net/documents/0812229/0812229111212000000000005.pdf )
"The Litigation Subcommittee will oversee (i) the prosecution of, subject to the
exculpation and release provisions of the Seventh Amended Plan, (A) D&O Claims, (B) claims against
professionals and representatives retained by the Debtors with respect to actions arising during the period
prior to the Petition Date; and (C) claims arising prior to the commencement of the Debtors’ bankruptcy
cases against third-parties for any non-contractual breach of duty to WMI, including, but not limited to,
antitrust claims and business tort claims ...."
Per my attorney friend:
We can still go after JPMC and FDIC, unless they buy our releases:
From page of the DS ( http://www.kccllc.net/documents/0812229/0812229111212000000000005.pdf )
"The Litigation Subcommittee will oversee (i) the prosecution of, subject to the
exculpation and release provisions of the Seventh Amended Plan, (A) D&O Claims, (B) claims against
professionals and representatives retained by the Debtors with respect to actions arising during the period
prior to the Petition Date; and (C) claims arising prior to the commencement of the Debtors’ bankruptcy
cases against third-parties for any non-contractual breach of duty to WMI, including, but not limited to,
antitrust claims and business tort claims ...."
No mention of a "Litigation Trust" anywhere in POR7.
What do you guys make of this, re BOLI/COLI:
On and effective as of the Effective Date, and pursuant to
the 363 Sale and Settlement, (i) all assets in the Rabbi Trust set forth on Exhibit “Q”
hereto (the “WMI Rabbi Trust”), all BOLI/COLI policies and the proceeds thereof set
forth on Exhibit “R” hereto (the “WMI Policies”), shall be deemed to be and forever
determined to be the property of WMI, and the JPMC Entities will be deemed to have
sold, transferred and assigned any and all right, title and interest the JPMC Entities may
have in such assets, free and clear of all liens, Claims, interests and encumbrances, (ii)
the JPMC Entities shall take such action as may be reasonably requested by WMI to
cause third parties, including, without limitation, trustees of the WMI Rabbi Trust and the
issuers of the WMI Policies to recognize and reflect on their books and records that WMI is the owner of or the beneficiary of, as the case may be, the WMI Rabbi Trusts and the
WMI Policies and WMI shall be authorized and expressly permitted to exercise all
ownership rights related to the WMI Rabbi Trust and the WMI Policies, including,
without limitation, surrender or liquidation rights, and (iii) any liabilities to the thirdparty
beneficiaries of such assets or policies, including, without limitation, insureds, coinsureds
or beneficiaries of the WMI Rabbi Trust or the WMI Policies for deferred
compensation or other plans in the WMI Rabbi Trust and the WMI Policies which such
assets relate shall remain liabilities of WMI’s chapter 11 estate.
Thanks, Strike. Now that POR7 is out, I'd love to get your thoughts... when you're done digesting it, of course.
Thanks Strike. I am not a religious man, but right now I pray like hell that you are right.
Fingers crossed.
Jack
Strike: Care to share how you come up with $250? Cuious minds want to know...
Thanks!
Jack
I repeat - the decision to CRIMINALLY prosecute the SNHs for IT is not up to the UST. It is DOJ that decides that.
Everything settled in this mediation relates to money, and has nothing to do with SNH's going to jail for CRIMINAL insider trading. That can still happen after this BK wraps up.
955: You wrote "IF WE ACCEPT A SETTLEMENT, THERE WILL BE NO CRIMINAL PROSECUTION FOR THE CRIMES THAT HAVE BEEN COMMITTED!"
Not necessarily.
You wrote: "Do not try and bury this important fact."
I'm not trying to bury anything. I'm sorry if you don't understand the situation. Our releases - to the extent there are any - release them from being sued by us further - NOT FROM CRIMINAL PROSECUTION.
What Eric Holder does is another matter - but our releases do not preclude criminal prosecution by the DOJ for IT.
You should feel relieved by that. Please stop mixing the issues, or making something of this that it's not.
Can't blame you...
I think the mention of having a DS filed within 4 days of a hearing strongly suggests the deal is done. A DS takes a long time to craft/modify, and get the agreement of all parties, etc.
Also, the EC's silence spoke volumes, IMO. No way they didn't know what Rosen was going to say in court last Thursday.
Again, anything can happen... but I think this is all but done.
This may be the one he's referring to:
http://messages.finance.yahoo.com/Business_%26_Finance/Investments/Stocks_%28A_to_Z%29/Stocks_W/threadview?bn=86316&tid=888882&mid=889103
Re: 11.5 BLN valuation for WMI! 10-Dec-11 10:23 am
Hedge funds make their extraordinary profits through leverage (i.e., derivatives). Derivatives magnify profits. If the SNs have $6B in cash they can leverage that two to three times to $12B or $18B, for example. If they generate a 20% profit, they'll have made $2.4B to $3.6B before profits. If they have carrying cost (i.e., the money they need to pay for the use of the $2B owed to seniors) of, say, $100MM, then if they've made total profit of $3.6B they end up with $3.5B. If equity is entitled to 50%, then equity gets $1.75B. The total preferreds are $7.5B, so preferreds get $1.75B/$7.5B, or .23. That's $230 for 1 P for just one year. A market player would probably pay at least $500 for that P.
If JPM assumes the TPS, then the $1.75B is even more profitable for P holders: it is $1.75B/$3.5B, or .50. That's a 50% annual return, and a P would be worth over $1,000 at that point.
What started with only $6B in cash (that the SNs didn't even own outright) generated a total return of $3.6B, or 60% using conservative leverage. The foregoing is just an illustration, but it should give people here an idea of how the SNs make their money. You may want to be along for the ride if you can because I doubt there are many people reading these boards who have the assets to invest with people like David Tepper.
Other than Rosen's history, why do you not think we'll see a settlement? They've been working on it for six weeks, and have specific dates in mind for both filing a DS and hearings to move towards confirmation.
EC did not object to the timeframes mentioned. That, to me, suggests a deal is imminent.
Your thoughts?
Yes, it's perplexing. In some earlier posts, I offered some conservative estimates which I think put the P's north of $150.
But, as they say, the devil is in the details... I hope this slingshots much past that number when people realize there's value here and scramble to grab shares.
Oh, to dream...
A "deal" here does not preclude jail time for the crooks. There could still be a civil trial (money), and another for criminal (freedom). Nobody said they are off the hook for jail time - that's up to the DOJ.
I said "relatively happy"... as in, relative to $0, or 5%, or 10%...
It's going to be a screw job, for sure if you're a pre-seizure holder... less so, if you bought at the bottom.
Again, it's all relative. But I'd rather have a bird in hand now...
At this point, I'd be happy with $200, too.
Relatively happy, anyway.
$1000 guaranteed in a year? Really?
We all know something is coming - eventually. To say "It's here!" when it's not is unfair to the people here that have waited so long for this thing to be over.
When it hits - and it's real - then let us know. And thanks in advance for that notice.
Jack
Stock Act is WAY overdue...
I do, too... and settlement by 12/8.
GLTA.
I concur - settlement in December. Nobody - including the EC - wants to chance losing at trial.
Many thanks. Makes a lot of sense.
Care to speculate on when mediation will end, and whether it will end in a settlement?
Chiron: You've got a pretty good streak going with your "hunches" recently. What leads you to believe that DIMEs will be ruled to be equity? Inquiring minds want to know...
Thanks.
"I can only hope that these criminals get what they deserve (and what they weren't expecting)."
Well said. I don't think anyone here would disagree with you on that.
Hope you are having (or had) a great Thanksgiving.
Jack
David,
My apologies... my comment was made with little understanding of the issue. I want nothing less than JMW to observe the rule of law.
My comment was only meant to reflect a hope that I see recovery on my investment, and was in no way intended to offend any/all holders of DIME.
Jack
Thanks, go... that is very informative. I appreciate the link.
Jack
Thanks, Catz. I appreciate you sharing your thoughts, as you know more about the issue than I.
I feel bad if they got screwed... but since I own P's and no DIMEs, I hope they lose, too.
Jack
Catz: When you get a chance, can you share with us your impressions of today's hearing, in particular how you think JMW will rule on whether DIME is debt or equity?
Thanks in advance.
Jack
Even better. And the number for the total number of preferreds is $7.5 Billion?
Hardasset: thanks for checking my math. I'm no mathematician, for sure, so it's good to hear you arrived at the same figures.
My fingers are crossed that $300M flows to the prefs...
How did you come up with $10/share?
Yes, Rockie... IF preferreds are in the money, then yes, the $300M represented by DIME would mean $40/share more for the P's.
(Assuming everything else that I stated in my previous post)
Hearing is still underway...
Rockie: I'm not an expert on Dime, so please keep that in mind..
My computation assumes $300 million is given to the preferreds to split amongst them... If so, P's would be worth $40/share. (assuming $7.5B in preferreds)
I don't know how close preferreds are to seeing their first dollar, however, so some of that $300M might need to go to making up a shortfall.
Hope that helps.
Jack
Ahhh, gotcha. Smart. Better to err on the conservative side.
Claw: my math comes up with $40/share for P's.
If Dimeq is valued at $300M (or 0.3 Billion), and that is divided by $7.5B (This, I believe is the "accepted" amount of preferreds out there), then 0.3/7.5 = 0.04
Multiply that by $1000 fv and I get $40/share for P's.
Jack
Thanks Catz... My attorney friend requested it... I'll be in touch with any insights...
Thanks chaarles...
Does anyone have a link to the GSA? I'm researching rights and obligations of parties that don't extend, and those that do...