If Your In, Your In.
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Or you can look at it this way.
Quote: Assuming MDMN US owns 50% of MDMN Chile, the initial tranche translates into $0.007/share;
OR
$10,000,000 in a stock buy-back would equal 142,857,142 shares or 20% of the outstanding shares. If you think the stock is undervalued this is the right play for the management of both companies.
If you're In, You're In
On the rollercoaster that is MDMN, understanding the investment and the market in which it operates and the individuals that will minipulate or take adavantage of the un=seasoned investor, will help newbies weather the drops and pops.
When real buyers purchase the shares the price moves back up, when the MM trade between themselves or a few paniced seller dumps their shares the price drops. That is why the SP does not matter at this point.
This manipulation can be on both sides, up or down. The change in stock price has no meaningful relationship to whether or not this investment will be successful or not. YOUR research is your best potection. (reading BBs do not constitute research)
IMO, The value of this investment is in the fact that the price of underlying metals associated with the investment have increase 300% since the "last failed JV attempt" and that global demand for these metals should continue to remain high as China and India continue to push their economys forward.
Understanding the timing, is your best defense to your sanity. The deal will close when the JV partners choose to close the deal and not before then.
I believe that this is the right asset, the right management and the right time to risk on an invesmtent of this nature. IMO this is a very complicated transaction involving a significant amount of investment capital and requires an equal amount of time to complete the legal documents associated with the changing structure. That means it requires unnatural patience in order to weather the timetables ahead.
This is not a recommendation to purchase or sell the shares of this invesment, each investor is responsible for their own decisions and should consider all available information before making their decision.
If You're IN, You're IN
Who would have guessed.
Your weekend post:
QUOTE: I'm done with this fly by night bs. Sell all Monday for sure.
You must have changed your mind. That seems to be the flavor of the day on this investment. It is like watching ping pong with some of the posters here.
IMO, We will eventually go through the panic sellers and move backup to the .10 average we have had over the last 6 months. The shorts (if there are any) will push hard to move the shares even lower and walk it down on 500 share trades. I don't care. It gives me a chance to pick up additional shares.
You can't margin these shares, so invest what you can afford to lose and hold till the deal closes. It is only time that you are losing until the deal either closes or falls apart.
If you bought 10000 at .15 and 10000 at .06 your avg cost is .105 and your exposure is $1,050.00. 1,000 shareholders would have to make this trade today to reach our total volume. BIG DEAL.
You either believe or you don't, or you change your mind based on the stock price. Again, I dont care what your flavor of the day is. IMO, This is the right asset, the right time, and the right management.
Last post of the day, so, post away.
9 mIllion shares traded on a day the dow is down 500. Someone is buying alot of shares today. The share price only matters to the sellers, the buyers are picking up deals as they dollar cost average. To me the glass is half full. The price of the comodities continue to rise, this deal only gets better in the long term.
Patience Buddy
The delays have been more than 6 months, but the delays are meaningless. We have a deal or we don't have a deal and we are going to know before the Spring melt in Chile, (which is September or October).
The mountain is covered with snow until then. That is why alot of the JV's are announce at the end of August in short advance of the work. It makes no sense to announce a deal and then have to sit on your hands for three months.
The announcement will not chance the risks, that changes at the conclusion of the drilling and feasibility study. But the announcement followed by the details will frame the next discussion of the possibilities and that will advance the share price.
I have the patience to follow through on this investment as do all the many of investors that have held the stock over the last 12 years. The short timers will move in and out of the stock and create the charts we have seen in the last six months trying to time it perfectly. They give up the upside reward to avoid the down side. Some will benefit, most will fail miserably. Why because you can't time the market.
You lay your money down and play the game.
IMO, IF you're IN, You're IN.
When real buyers purchase the shares the price moves back up, when the MM trade between themselves or a real seller dumps his shares the price drops. That is why the SP does not matter at this point. Upon the announcement of the JV completion, additional buyers will come in and there will be no sellers at this level. If the JV does not get announced there will be no buyers at any price.
Your lack of knowledge in this, suggest you should spend sometime researching the investment in any pink sheet stock. They are very risky investments because of the potential manipulation by both a small number of shareholders and the market makers in the security.
This manipulation can be on both sides, up or down. The change in stock price has no meaningful relationship to whether or not this investment will be successful or not.
This investment has long legs, its has been around for twelve plus years. The timetable to complete a transaction (one year or more) that returns full value to the shareholders, has resulted with years of wasted time and effort as well as the continued delution of the long term shareholders. That has changed, over the years, the potential ROI to its shareholders, however, most long term shareholders have a cost basis of below .05.
The value of this investment is in the fact that the price of underlying metals associated with the investment have increase 300% since the last JV attempt and that global demand for these metals shall continue to remain high as China and India continue to push their economys forward.
THE RISK IS HIGH, do not invest your rent money here, but IMO the returns can be life changing if your willing to wait for whatever agreement management finally completes.
The deal will close when the JV partners choose to close the deal and not before then. IMO, roll the dice and risk what you can afford to lose. That way you never have to lose any sleep as to whether this is a scam or not.
I believe that this is the right asset, the right management and the right time to risk on an invesmtent of this nature. That opinion may change in the future, but right now, IMO this is not a scam but a very complicated transaction involving a significant amount of investment to complete and requires unnatural patience in order to weather the timetables ahead.
This is not a recommendation to purchase or sell the shares of this invesment, each investor is responsible for their own decisions and should consider all available information before making their decision. This board is not the place to provide IMO adequate DD in this regard.
If You're IN, You're IN
I have proved my point in less than 60 seconds.
Go MDMN, we are about to see something special.
Have a great weekend.
Someone is buying big.
Great volume with little price drop. Someone is buying alot of shares at this price. That is more impressive than the shareholders that are scared and selling. We have been at the .10 SP or below in each of the last 6 months. (pull up the chart) I would expect these swings to continue into the future until the announcement.
Bottom line the SP does not matter until the JV resolution is announced. This is a long term play, the flippers will make their money on the drops then repeat.
Hats off to you for your mea culpa.
What the dividend does is, not provide individual investors with significant dollars in their pocket, but instead, sets the table for future distributions, informs the investor community that we have moved forward on our investment strategy, and once and for all proves or disproves the existance of the naked short position.
The dividend could and should propel the share price by a multiple of 4 to 6 based on how the market applies industrty averages to the details of the JV.
A 400% to 600% increase in SP for someone holding 100,000 is significant.
I do agree with your statement "If MDMN somehow, some way does bear fruit, rewards will be enjoyed in years in the future". The long term returns will greatly outway the short.
IF You're In, You're In
Last posting under the dog house rule.
Money 103 for your benefit although previous post were not directed to you but those interested in another opinion.
1. Minority intrest discounts - most corporations trade above book value and based on it's industry at a multiple of earnings, current and future. When you buy your .00000000001% percent of Microsoft you are purchasing at a price per share less than if you purchased 100% of the ownership interest. That is typically referred to as a premium to the market price. If you want to assume thus that always purchase at a discount, you can. It is a glass half full vs glass half empty view. But the premium relates to discussions of the acquisition of over 51% not minority positions.
Quote - We're talking about MDMN's US investment in MDMN Chile
2. MDMN's balance sheet does not reflect an investment in MDMN Chile. Instead our investment is through agreement of a carried interest in the claims related to mountain. Previous Q & A's have stated that the carried interest as it relates to the current JV is 50% per JJ. Little sister has a carried interest in property not included in the JV but owned separately or either directly or indirectly through MDMN Chile. Make sure you understand the history and past agreement before applying accounting principle.
Quote - EXACTLY what portion of the $29,000,000 in C/S + PIC is stated capital? Isn't that your threshold
3. The $29 million includes the stated capital. While I do not know the stated capital, my guess would be in the $70,000 area at most, probably $7,000.
Quote - Oh bollocks! MDMN US has given away a large chunk of it's $29,000,000 in C/S to fund it's $23,000,000 of accumulated losses. Please don't pretend this is a good thng. If it WAS a good thing, MDMN would take the time to present a schedule of shareholders equity and insider holdings like any serious company that pays attention to fiduciary duty to its stockholders does.
4. Not sure what bollocks means but it does not sound like you agree. Here this might help. The Company gave up alot of stock to fund $23,000,000 in operating costs and $6,000,000 in capitalized acquisition costs. Let say about $1,800,000 per year on average. For a non operating company trying to move to full production of the assets it holds, that is cheap. The real interesting thing is that this company has survived the continued attacks over the many years.
5. Your last comment is just filed with opinion and has no relavance to a non operating entity other than to point out that this is a high risk investment in a company with no earnings and cash flow. Your recomendation would be issue more stock to pay for the meaningless reporting requirements that change nothing. Oh wait, see number 4 above.
Have a great weekend, hopefully we don't have long to wait to see which one of us is right.
If You're In, You're In
Understanding the possibilities.
Here is what "I GUESS" the structure of this deal would look like.
1. A new entity is created.
2. The properties or claims are transferred to new corporation in exchange for a portion of debt and the remaining in equity.
3. MDMN Chile initially owns 100% of corporation. MDMN US has carried interest through it's 51% ownership in MDMN Chile ownership in these specific properties.
4. JV partners invest an initial amount of money (1st tranche)into new corp for ownership percentage. (amount unknown)
5. 1st tranche is broken into three pieces, 1st - cost of planned drilling program, 2nd - working capital for operations and infastucture improvements, 3rd - funds for repayment of prior period costs incurred to date as reflected in debt portion of of #2 above.
6. MDMN US balance sheet reflects these changes by decreasing capitalized cost in asset section of balance sheet, records note receivable and investment in MDMN Chile investment in JV for agreed transfer price. Any difference would be recorded as earnings from the sale or transfer.
IMPORTANT: a 51% interest in the property does not equate to a 51% interest in MDMN Chile. Our understand currently is that MDMN Chile contains no other non co-owned assets but that may not be the case. I make this statement based on the wording of both Q & A and updates over the years but this is just my opinion. Either way it does not change the value of what we own.
7. Under #5 (3) above a portion of the funds received by MDMN Chile will be paid to MDMN US. These funds will be used to repay accounts payable and shareholder's advances first, a portion will be retained to fund current operations and working capital needs and the remaining will be available for either a dividend or capital stock repurchase program.
8. MDMN US or MDMN Chile will have no obligations related to funding the drilling program, feasibility study or future production, this will be the obligation of New Corporation if the JV partners determine to proceed at each mile stone. Future distributions reflecting our net earnings from the production will be based on fixed distributed earnings from the new corp through MDMN Chile based on our carried interest. Thus if we estimate a 20% carried interest in the JV (high end) and a $400 million net operating profit on an annual basis in New Corp, we looking at $80 million in annual distributed earnings against immaterial operating cost in MDMN US.
9. Additional traunches will have simular cash components that will provide MDMN US with free cash flow for distribution or repurchase. However, we will be giving up ownership with each payment. The agreement will spell out the max and min of these percentages and will probably be based on the result of the drilling program and the feasibility study with lookback provisions.
The result of the agreement is that we monitize the value of minerals in the mountain. After the drilling program and feasibility study, the reserve studies should allow us to more closely estimate the future value of these distributions. Additionally, there is alway the possibilities that New corp is acquired prior to production which would result in immediate cash liquidation and distribution.
I offer this as just a narative and MY OPINION only based on my DD of this investment and other transactions in the field. Nothing contained in this is meant to either suggest anyone should buy or sell this investment. This is for discussion purposes only. But based on this structure, I believe that:
IF You're In, You're In.
Here is Money 102
Quote: you undoubtedly are familiar with minority interest discounts, so of course you agree we would take a substantial haircut in terms of "market" value in measuring our 50% interest in MDMN Chile as I can pretty much guarantee you Juan controls MDMN Chile.
Terms like "Minority Discount" do not apply when you are discussiong an individuals investment holdings. The term and theory is used when valuing an acquisition in which you are not purchasing a controlling interest and thus have no leverage in controlling the future transactions and direction of the investment. An individual shareholder is always along for the ride.
Quote: First of all, loan covenants would prohibit distributions reducing net assets below aggregate outstanding liquidation preferences, so you can pretty much count on the bankers saying "no" in this case.
MDMN has a positive capital account of over 6 million dollars. As a non operating company the reason for this is that we have funded our corporate development costs internally through the use of the public capital markets. That is what MDMN US provides and is invaluable to MDMN Chile. Your comment about aggregate outstanding liquidation preferences items includes only a couple thousand in trade payables and shareholder advance. We have no bank debt, so your banker restrictions do not apply to this discussion. So the management can easily say yes to either a dividend or stock repurchase.
Quote = Earnings (and dividends, in the most favorable and generous application of rules to your argument) won't be flowing for years at best. Also impairing the concept of "nimble" dividends is that such special distributions are allowed only as to the surplus of net assets over aggregate par value of shares outstanding, or to the extent that assets exceed liabilities + stated capital, either of which would cripple MDMN.
You prediction regarding earnings not flowing for years does not apply in an instance in which the timetable for production is compressed as a result of previous DD done on the mountain. Not withstanding this statement, stock values are based on current value of net assets, plus the value of intangibles which includes future earnings.
A stock repurchase (partial liquidation) is very common in monitizing the expected growth in future earnings of a company. The company buys back shares at a low current market price to increase the future EPS and ROE. The state of Nevada has no restrictions on the payment of dividends or a stock repurchase in instances where the company has positive capital in excess of it stated capital. Dividends can be paid out of current earnings without regard to the retained earnings of an entity within the context of the previous statement. Your statement regarding a repurchase program is just not factually correct.
MDMN is a non-reporting entity and meets all the requirements and is in compliance with all US laws and regulations. Comments about their lack of reporting are red herrings IMO and a non operating company will not incurr the massive government imposed cost associated with full reporting until operations have commenced.
Really.
If you're In, You're In.
Where do you think the 22 million in expenses reflected in retained earnings came from. The cost incurred by the corporation over the last 10+ years were paid by someone. And in exchange for that payment these individuals accepted stock in return instead of a note. This is how it is done EVERYWHERE.
Think of it this way, you have a business venture with a few other people. The cost to develop this business requires $1000 per month in cost. None of the other are willing to put up their share of the $1000, so you put it up. You could take a note, OR you could take stock for the value you paid at the market value at the time of the payment. By doing so, you gain additional ownership and those that did not contribute lose if the value of the business increases over the price used to value the contribution.
This is only fair, without your money, the business would fail and everyone losses everthing. Additionally, you have more money in the deal then the rest of the investors so you reep a greater percent of the rewards when it is successful. (we call it "capitalism"). Finally, if you have the most money in the deal you should have a greater voting percentage as things move forward. (we call this "the golden rule").
Most investors know another rule that "it is the second guy that make the money on the deal after the first guy gives up and walks away because he lack patience, trust or money to continue". This applies to real estate, partnerships and new ventures whether corps or partnerships.
If you have the money but not the patience, you cash out when you want to, when you have the patience but not the money, you cash out when the other party want you to, when you have neither, you should invest in CDs.
If you're In, Your In.
Posted this in September of 2010. Post 19811
FOX BUSINESS - On August 24th, 2010 Codelco (Chile Ntl Copper/mining)entered into a JV with Antofagasta Plc (Eng Mining Co) under a 4 year agreement, Antofagast will invest $2.5 million US in drillng program covering 1,900 hecters, at the end of 4 year program, Antofagasta will then carry out feasibility study. Should properties go into production Codelco retains 40% Antofagasta 60%. In 2008 Codelco signed similar exploration agreemnt with Rio Tinto.
The current Q & A suggest this type of arrangement with whom ever the JV partners are but also suggest a significant shorter drilling and feasibility study. The properties lends itself to an open pit mining operation, which IMO would accelerate timetables by a factor of 8.
Nothing so far is outside the due diligience related to this property. Don't buy into the postings of those that do not believe in the mountain. THEY DONT BELIEVE.
IF you're In, You're In.
I am sorry but I think you are mistaken about a few things.
First of all a Money 101 lesson.
The Balance Sheet
Asset - This is what the Company owns. It can be made up of tangible items like cash, receivables, equipment and land or intangible items like capitalized costs. typically, the assets are recorded a historical costs. (this means if you by a piece of land for 100 and it appreciates to 300 your book still reflect your 100 cost)
Liabilities - This is amounts you owe individuals or entities outside of the business itself. These individuals can be vendors, banks or shareholders that have advanced the company credit or funding for corporate purposes. Typically, these items have priority over the sharehoders in a liquidation.
Equity - This represents what the investors or shareholder own of the remaining assets after taking into account what is owed to the outside parties in the liability section.
So Asset = Liabilities + Equity (a balanced formula)
So looking at the June 30, financials of the 8.3 million in assets the shareholders own 6.5 million of that value.
But you ask, the market value of the company is 78 million dollars, what is the difference?
The answer is that the market is currently estimating that the value of the assets is really worth considerably more than the 8.3 million on the books. (78m - 8.3 = mkt value estimate)
So using lets say gold at 1600 per ounce (just an example) the mkt value adjustment is equal to 69.7m / 1600 = 43,562 ounces of gold / 25.5 (ownership interest) = 170,883 ounces of gold. (if you assume 60% production cost that takes the mined total to 427,207 ounces)
World production of gold in 2008 was 2330 TONS. Thats 74,560,000 ounces.
So multiply this by 10 to $1 per share we would need 4,272,070 ounces of production over time to justify a $1 share price. that is less than 7% of the production of gold in the world in only one year.
Lastly, unless the corporate articles or loan convenants exclude the payment of dividends in instances of negative retained earnings, the fact is we have positive capital of a 7 to 1 ratio this alone would justify the payment of dividends or a return of capital (possibly through a stock repurchase program)
Things I have learn about MDMN from this board this week.
1.) The management should be held to the same reporting requirements just like GE, BofA, Enron, WorldCom, Lehman Brothers, and AIG. Then we would know what we own.
2.) The NDA is just an excuse; nobody ever really takes those seriously. We are right to call management irresponsible and liars for not disclosing everything now. They owe us.
3.) The company should keep control of all things related to the timing of the announcement. After all, we are the ones that have the upper hand. We have what they want, and all they have is the money.
4.) Polo is as important as all the other MDMN holdings.
5.) The exclusion of Cerro from the deal is a bad thing for MDMN shareholders, because now there is a possibility we might exclude MDMN from the JV on principle.
Hello....Is anyone out there?
The share price does not matter until, and if the JV gets announced. The flips and flops are going to come and go like the waves of an ocean. Just realized that there is an ocean behind those waves and the tides are just cycles and your be fine.
To all the replies that don't hold any MDMN stock. Thanks, I must of touched a nerve.
Name me one conclusive fact that this is not going to happen.
This is anyone's guess on whether the investment is going to be a home run or a strikeout. You say you don't believe, I say I have faith that this is the right investment, at the right time, with the right management.
Information to sleep better on.
1.) MDMN has been around for more than 12 years and even though many have tried to destroy the management and Company, their attempts have failed.
2.) The majority owner of the shares is one of the wealthiest persons in Chile and well connected both in the legal and mining industry in that country.
3.) The property held by the company is in a geographic area that currently has a number of large mining operation in production.
4.) Limited drilling and testing has produced results that suggest this mountain contains enough minerals to justify a greater drilling program and feasibility study. Theses limited drilling results were evaluated when gold was at 500 per oz.
5.) As the price of the metals continue to climb with the collapse of the traditional markets around the world, demand for existing and theoretical mining programs will skyrocket.
6.) With a market cap of approx 105 million and SP of .14 the entry level for MDMN is minimal even for the modest investor.
7.) A group of long time investors share available current and historical due diligence to assist in your continued evaluation of the investment. The various board have the expected pumpers and badgers also.
8.) The stock price has had a number of roller coaster rides over the.last 10 years, BUT has always recovered and presented a number of flipping opportunities. The stock is currently up from .01 two years ago and down from the Decenber high at.19. Your not buying at a two year high.
9.) Management has stated in public communications that they have a JV deal in hand but not finalized. Although the time table for completion continually slips, evidence of movement exists that helps support the theory this time the deal gets closed.
10.) There is an outside possibility of a short squeeze of this stock based on past work in determining the number of OS shares held by a few individuals. This issue why heatedly debated, is plausible and could have huge SP effect.
11). Time is short to some determination. Good, bad or ugly. If your invested you won't have to wait long.
This is a high risk/ High return investment. These comments are not ment to promote the purchase or sale of the stock only to give my opinion of where we are currently. My opinion is that you do not invest your rent money, just what you can afford to lose. IMO
If you're In, You're In
The wheels are in motion now. Why announce the CHCD split unless the clock has been started on the MDMN announcement. The time table is shortening. There is no reason to speculate on when, but this announcement shows us that extensive work is being done on the mountain, the size of this deal is of a scale that many will be surprised, JJ has the shareholders interest at all times and in all aspects.
The non believers Will attack this week like no other. The SP does not matter, whether it moves north or south, our wait for the final information on the partners and the terms is a very short time away.
IMO, this is the right property, the right management, and very soon, the right time.
Win.....Win
Really, How much?
Last post of the day, (dog house rule)
Let me know and I consider taking that bet.
To help you out on the math, he would have to purchase $30 million US dollars in additional stock (estimate) to reach your target. That is 210,000,000 additional shares on the open market.
I am OK with that. Let see what the SP does when that play goes off.
Have a great weekend.
....How Royally Sad
That so many spend their time here when their time could be better spent on educating themselves on the investment. MDMN is what it is (a high risk/high return investment)... yet we have so many people telling us, that it is in fact, nothing.
The nature of investment often brings in a whole slew of bashers, some of which are paid to constantly down play the value. The stories of a huge short position on this stock is again and again confirmed by the number of people who say "There is no mountian, there are no minerals, the NDA is just a ploy, the management lies, I own no stock and have no past connection to the company and I am here to save you all from yourselves".
For sure, there are pumpers znd dumpers here that flip the shares for the .01 to .02 swings in the SP, all these type investments are the same when it comes to the manipulators. Your best plan is to ignore them, but that is not near as entertaining.
Invest in the mountain, invest in the possible minerals, invest what you can afford to lose, take the holiday off and watch the Company web-site for more news in the near future.
The mountain is not going anywhere. The opportunity, like the mountain is real. You don't need hope, you need faith that This is the right asset, at the right time, with the right management for you to roll the dice on a HRHR investment. The SP does not matter, it will when this thing is finally completed. At .14 the market cap is over at 100 million. Pennies to the true value IMO.
I hope everyone has a great Canada Day and 4th of July.
If you're In, You're In
As long as we have the mountain, we have the asset to leverage into a deal. This JV (whether closed this month or not) takes us alot closer to the final deal. The difference between now and the past is the price and demand for the metals held in the mountain.
Comparing the past is like comparing apples to oranges. As the price continues to climb for the metals and gov't policy is changed to favor Jr. Miners and more information is derived from the mountain, the basis for the ivestment continues to improve no matter what the managment says or does'nt say.
The other thing that needs to be considered is that over 50% of this investment is owned or controlled by one individual. This is a closely held company. We as investors, are just along for the ride. IF that is not your cup of tea, then you should not be invested in the stock.
To demand updates in this situation is just juvenile. The stock is up from .01 to .14 in two years and holding well today. Think long term and buy on the dips.
IF you're In, You're In
Time is on our side. Short sided thinking is the difference between cookie doe and chocolate chip cookies. The only problem we will ever have is if the mountain disappears. The rest is timing. I am not sure why people can't understand that.
It is really easy, buy it, hold it, eventually retire on it.
Maybe(maby)that means you hold for a while. I don't think it will be much longer, maybe today or next week. The rumors are flying, that we are down to the legal work in Chile, if that is a pump, not much of one. But don't trust the rumors, the web site says:
June 2
We have been informed today, by the Joint Venture Agreement partners, that they are finally able to move ahead with the JVA funding provisions. With proof of the JVA partner’s funding in place, the final documents, relative to the JVA partner’s exact ownership of Medinah’s “fully documented” title/claims interests, can now be notarized in Chile by all parties to the Joint Venture Agreement. This transference of the percentage ownership holdings contained in the Agreement terms and conditions precedes the release of the funding matters contained in the Joint Venture Agreement.
Subsequently, Medinah Minerals, Inc. (USA) and Medinah Minerals (Chile) representatives will meet with all parties to the Joint Venture Agreement and take receipt of apportioned funds on behalf of Medinah shareholders.
That is where we are today. I hear everything and believe nothing that is not posted on the web site, my investment is based on the mountain, not the mind games of the flips and the do gooders that are out to save us all from ourselves.
I am willing to wait for the chocolate chip cookies. I can smell them cooking as I type. And boy are they going to taste so good.
Now you are talking.
On the plus side of the equation - The price of the metals are not going down anytime soon. With the EU on the verge of collapse and the US unable to see the forest for the trees and get their house in order, and with China's ecconomy expected to grow 100% in the next 10 years, the price for the metals will only go up and make any possible economic viability of an operation only look better. And with a majority owner not willing to sell us down the river, a Chilean in Chile, take comfort that you will not end up on the short end of this investment. It is only a matter of time.
I can wait. I sure don't want to, but I can wait for the homerun. This stock should be in the mid .30 today putting our market cap at around 200 million. The mountain is worth that at it stand today. Any drop in the SP is only temporary and a JV or outright sale will be completed. Sometime in July - probably, sometime during the summer - certainly, sometime this year - definately.
The moutain is real, it is there. Invest what you can afford to hold long term, trade when you can dollar cost down, ignore all the good and bad BS on all the boards, do your own DD with available information, trust no one, and move on when it starts to affect your life in a negative way.
Time is on our side. This is the right time, the right asset, and the right management to make this thing work.
IF you're In, You're In
What..... You mean, if it does not happen then it does not happen, and if it happens, then ....... it happens. OK makes sense to me. I think that this deal is a go, no go, long before the end of September or year end.
The stock is in a holding pattern which is, I think, what the post is saying.
The SP is meaningless at this point. The volume has dried up with the decrease in shorting and sale of air shares. Next week should be a good sign of things to come.
LOL, Sometimes this investment reads like a made for TV mini series.
Quote:
Decosta has referred to me as being an employee, or one who somehow stands to benefit if MDMN does not do well. This is lie. Period. One might use the word DEFAME, or perhaps SLANDER, or even LIBEL, but since I post anonymously, I don't really see the need for action.
It is nice to be anonymous when your throwing tomatoes from the weeds.
Actually, I don't understand anyones reasoning for hanging around here and doing what you do, but I don't have a problem with it. You are obviously a CPA in North America with a strong tax background and alot of time on his hands. You add value under the full disclosure tab regarding the investment, albeit, more of a personal nature then real analysis.
Under the pot calling the kettle black theory, I think posting information regarding tax treatment of dividends and capital gains OR losses might be of more benefit for the readers and something you are better qualified to address. Someday in the near future, IMO, we will be dealing with one of these issues.
The investment should be analysed based on the risk first, and you provide limited information on those risks, then a potential investor needs to understand existing information in all forms that reduces those risks to tolerable level based on the potential rewards. The risk are high, the DD consists of 14+ years of information but contains no guarrantees. That makes this still just a roll of the dice.
I am sure there are 1000 of people who have faced this same position, I mean think about the hall mates of Micheal Dell when he told them he was going to biuld PC in his dorm room. I mean the guy was no computer expert yet. And I am sure for every Michael Dell there are 1000 others who never succeeded but tried. That is MDMN in a nut shell, IMO.
If you're In, You're In.
The Mountain is Real
OK, One thing I know for sure you can agree with is that,
THE MOUNTAIN IS REAL I mean, I have seen pictures, really the thing is massive. You can go out on a number of site and see people walking on the mountain. I am 100% sure it is there.
Now, whether the mountain contains adequate minerals, at the current market price to justify a commercial mining program, we will have to wait and see. We will not know this until after the drilling program. I mean, based on actual drilling to date we know that there is some mineralization on the moutain just from the limited core samples taken. Again, I stipulate that these were not adequate to properly justify a mining program. Thus the need for the first tranche to complete additional drilling and feasability study.
The dentist, you often defame on this site, is not the only person to have ever been on the mountain and determined there is geological evidence to support the possiblility of considerable wealth buried in the rocks (on that REAL mountain). In fact, numerous mining has been done on that mountain over the last 100 years. The difference between now and then is in the commodity prices. At current market value of gold, copper and moly, this moutain and surrounding areas have great potential. Not far from this site is some of the largest mines in central chile.
I use the word potential, because nothing should be taken as a given in this investment. But if your going to take a bet, knowing that the price of these metals are going to continue to climb, and with history and limited evidence based on non authoratative evidence (Doc) and some authoratative (Howe) of a probability of there existance, understanding that, IF, and I mean IF, additional drilling does justify a commercial mining operation, and IF there is a possibility of a significant short position on this stock that could have an effect on the future SP, and since this company has existed for 14+ years and because I can get a seat at this table for only .14, And the upside could make even a $14,000 investment worth ten time that. This has to be a bet of a life time IMO.
Show me a better deal that meets all these requirements. I will sell my shares tomorrow if you can.
This stock has a few worts, the twelve years have cost 200,000,000 in additional shares to fund expansion and operations. Management is not forth coming with relevant, clear information and time tables, the stock is a pink stock and thus not require to file audited financials and disclosures, and the majortiy shareholder is not willing to give it away to get a deal done.
It is a high risk / high return investment. But No one offers any proof to counter the real DD out there, instead we see constant personal attacks on individual involved and tea leaf readings. I believe today the evidence supporting the investment is 1000 times greater than the personal mud slung to refute such.
There are people on both sides of this investment manipulating the readers. I don't believe any of the rumors. I don't need to, because I know the Mountain is Real and while the odds are not 100% in my favor, the bet is still a good one.
This is the right property, the right managment and the right time to risk it all (not your rent money) for the possibility of a big payoff. IF the truth is right under your nose, please let me know the details without the slander and the defamation of individuals you have stated you have no personal knowledge of and or the silly word games regarding managment communications. Truth is based on fact, opinion is based on suppisition, you should know the difference.
The truth is, no one knows what we have or what it's true value is at this point, hopefully we will find out soon, if not I'll buy some more on the dips and penny average down. Enough said.
If you're In, You're IN
Sometimes, often used phrases can be difficult to understand.
Quote
"TIME AND TIME AGAIN, the "hold up" in this deal is with respect to the "partner" not being able to (or wanting to) deliver the funding"
This is what happens during "due diligence". Whether the issues relate to funding or legal, the process is one in which both parties must perform under the terms of the agreement in order for the deal to close. The letter of intent was not the JV agreement, the JV Agreement is the legal document that spells out the contractual obligations of the parties.
References by many posters to the Janaury 15th date is incorrect in the assumption that at that date all due diligence was completed. The fact that the money was not transferred is proof of that. If I recall, changes were made in the December meeting to the agreement and on multiple occasion mangement has said that the deal in not final until all parties have fufilled their initial obligations under the agreement (the first tranche).
The issue regarding what is real can only be answered with a statement of fact. The Mountain is Real You would have to agree that it is extremely difficult for a JR mining Company to get a deal of this size without considerable work on the part of the major player. It has taken this long, 14+ years for all the stars to line up, mineral prices, mineral demand, Chilean gov't support, and acquisition of adjacent properties by JJ. What is real is tangible, everything else if fleeting.
The legal counsel issue is another red herring, If a person with a legal background in mining was to work on a project for 14+ years, I think that he probably has a real good handle on all aspects of the deal. The need to hire significant outside counsel (we have incurred some legal fees), and thus issue more shares to pay for the fees associated with the work you already have done, seem not to be in the best interest of the existing shareholders.
The bottom line is that JJ or the board is not in control of the closing and the distribution of information regarding such. Criticism is easy when the other side is legal bound by a ND. The Mountian is Real, the deal is real, that does not mean the deal is a guarrantee or that it is what we expect. We do not need to "Hope we own something", We own a mountain, what we have to hope for is that someone understands the value and is willing to pay us a fair price for the rights. Hopefully, we will find out in the coming weeks, one way or another.
IF You're In, You're IN
Regarding this transaction
Thomson Reuters - Antofagasta Stock Price doubled from the date of the JV announcement thru YE. At the time it was trading at approx 700 GBp closed at 1600 GBp at year end.
Have you ever been involved in any deal, your statement suggest otherwise.
"Your reference to due diligence suggests MDMN must NOT know "what it owns"
Due diligence is not an expedition to find something that might or might not exist, it is a process the parties to an agreement go through to disclose information regarding the contemplated trasaction related to ownership and title to property, legal issues and known liabilites, rights and obligations to third parties, contracts, structure of agreements and current and future consideration, and an endless list of other items that allows the parties to fully understand the risks and rights surrounding teh transaction.
Both parties have certain due diligence that is required before signing any agreement. MDMN is not going to enter into a transaction without fully understanding the other parties ability to deliver on their responcibilities under the agreement.
Additional due diligence related to regulatory issues post JV will also be addressed as part of this process. If you go back and look at previous posts regarding chilean JV you will find we are still within the expected timeframe for completion of the agreement from beginning of negotiations to signing of the JV.
Here is a reference:
FOX BUSINESS - On August 24th, 2010 Codelco (Chile Ntl Copper/mining)entered into a JV with Antofagasta Plc (Eng Mining Co) under a 4 year agreement, Antofagast will invest $2.5 million US in drillng program covering 1,900 hecters, at the end of 4 year program, Antofagasta will then carry out feasibility study. Should properties go into production Codelco retains 40% Antofagasta 60%. In 2008 Codelco signed similar exploration agreemnt with Rio Tinto.
This agreement took over twelve months from beginning to end to complete. During that process both parties expended considerable time and money on the due diligence related to the project.
Finally, MDMN's legal counsel is not driving the boat in this process, as the web site has stated on many occasions, the JV agreement will be completed upon the deposit of the first tranche and not before. That means the investor decides when his due diligence is complete and when the deal is complete.
Like it or not, the Company is not is control of the process. JJ's skills as an CEO or his ability to communicate to the shareholders of MDMN will not change the pace or execution of the agreement. The mountain itself has more to do with this than anything JJ does or says.
Understand the process and understand the investment and you will understand that accusations related to the timing and closing have no informed basis.
If you're In, You're In
Gentlemen, Last call. We close in 20 minutes.
Who Cares..... at .025 or .15, 11 million or 33 million who cares at this point what they did with the money. We will all know in due course how this deal was structured and how the acquistions and operations were funded over the last 15 years in a non revenue producing Jr mining company.
Based on the level of activity in trying to complete this deal, plan for the post JV reporting structure, pay current taxes, fund travel, fund the legal work and required due diligence, 33 million shares at an average price of .10 over the last 4 quarters seems a little light. I would have expected more.
This is a non issue at this point and anyone saying differently is just trying to effect some alternative result as it relates to the market activity. In two weeks, we will know the details, after the AGM, the # of shares might be meaningless to the individual shareholder holding less than 100,000 shares, in two years the ROI on those invested will not be effected by the small amount of penny shares issued to make the deal happen.
JMO, If you're In, You're IN
The underlying issue would always be proving intent ie. the action was initiated for the benefit of themselves and or their employers and secondly the ability of the individual or entity to prove damages directly caused by the action.
The professionals understand this, thus the criptic wordings and use of historical fact without application to the item under discussion.
OK, That means you just hate the stock.... Right.
You have no personal or financial interest in the company, managment or shareholders. You just hate the stock and spend your days, along with a handful of others, just posting your opinion for the benefit of the masses.
I am not sure that helps me understand your posts any better. Usually, the underlying justification of an individual helps a person evaluate their positions. You are telling me that you are here to just fight the good fight without any benefit to you.
Most people would say that is impobable,
Psychological egoism
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Psychological egoism is the view that humans are always motivated by self-interest, even in what seem to be acts of altruism. It claims that, when people choose to help others, they do so ultimately because of the personal benefits that they themselves expect to obtain, directly or indirectly, from doing so. It is a non-normative view, since it only makes claims about how things are, not how they ought to be. It is, however, related to several other normative forms of egoism, such as ethical egoism and rational egoism.
A specific form of psychological egoism is psychological hedonism, the view that the ultimate motive for all voluntary human action is the desire to experience pleasure or to avoid pain. Many discussions of psychological egoism focus on this variety, but the two are not the same: one can hold that all actions are ultimately motivated by considerations of self-interest without thinking that all agents conceive of their self-interest in terms of feelings of pleasure and pain
I still have doubts.
My last post of the day. (dog house thing)
Honest Question.
Since you are not a shareholder of the Company, would it be out of line to ask if you were involved in the lawsuit filed by the company back in 2000 and 2001 against individuals for $50 million in damages for defamation and interference? Have you been involved in any litigation regarding the company or any officers or shareholders.
LAKE ELSINORE, Calif.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Dec. 20, 2000--Management of Medinah Mining, Inc. announces that Medinah Mining Inc.'s Attorney, Michael Morrison, has informed the Board of Directors in the law suit: Medinah Mining, Inc. Plaintiff vs. Mike
Menzies, Ben Howe, Christian Amunategui, John Doe's 1-20 and Black Corporations1-20, that the Defendants' motion to dismiss for lack of jurisdiction has been denied.
The United States District Court of Nevada has ordered that the Plaintiff's suitregarding defamation, interference with contractual rights, interference with prospective economic advantage and misrepresentation and fraud, be continued under the jurisdiction of the State of Nevada.
The Board of Directors of Medinah Mining, Inc. have instructed Attorney, MichaelMorrison, to amend the suit to now specify John Doe's 1-20 and Black Corporations 1-20 within the parameters of the original pleadings.
On behalf of the Board of Directors
Just trying to understand your motivation for your posts so I can better evaluate your opinion on the management of the company. I understand the flippers and swing traders, both the pumpers and dumpers, it money. But have not figured out you or my buddy's justification for all the negative posts.
It is an honest question, please give me an honest answer.
Please..... Wake-up ...... Take a Break ...... Have an adult beverage ...... Don't miss the forest for the trees.
The stock in early May was at .09, we had a good run to .16 in 30 days (a 78% run) Understand that the long term goal of every shareholder is not found in a SP in the teens. The SP does not matter today, tommorrow or any day before the announcement. If you believe in the deal, then buy what you can afford to lose, hold for as long as you can and forget the fluctuations and manipulation of the MMs and day traders, many of them who post every 10 minutes on this board.
Understand that most of the guys you think are wearing the white hats and posting positive comments, are flipping this stock. If they post more than a couple times a day they are trying to get into your head and flipping on the moves. (The ones that are positive on Monday and negative on Wednesday are obvious, put them on ignore and save yourself the anguish) That is what they do for a living. Nobody can sit and watch this all day long and not be trying to make a buck on the SP swings.
The time table is shrinking for the completion of the JV. Just relax and try not to get overly excited or panick on the swings. When we get to a SP of about .40 to .80 you will have enough worry about then.
Embrace the horror and know, If you're IN, You're In.
And they round the first turn.
Looking for things to get real exciting over the next 10 trading days. Remember the SP means nothing at this point. The day traders are loving the play, the real longs will be waiting for the JV announcement and the details of the JV. The DT will buy n the morning and sell in the mid day until the news or additional update.
IMO, Expect a flood from the unwashed, grasping at any bit of information to try to hold back the flood water. They will let a few of the levies go to try to control the flow of buying, but like the Missisippi, additional rain up stream will eventually require them to take out whole levels of resistance to keep their total losses under control. What that level is, is anyones guess, but the showers in Dec and January upstream will only grow with the spring rain. The more information in the next few weeks, the larger the surge of buying. MDMN like water, travels the path of least resistance, but eventually will overpower any attempt to control its course.
If You're IN, Your IN
IMO, the finalization of the paperwork and the first of the many PR announcements could come in quick rapid fire. (meaning, sitting on the side lines at this point will cost you big). The JV partners have been waiting since January 15th to process the neccessary paperwork, any future delays should be resolved in days and not months.
Again IMO, after the close today through the next two weeks, each day will biuld on the next until the final disclosure of the partners, terms, dollars, and size of the deal. With any luck, we will not have to wait long for the start of the PR developed.
My gut is telling me this is going to be huge long term, talking about an exit strategy before we know the details is just dreaming. A 100% return from .13 is a great return but a 500% return is probably just scratching the surface.
Last post of the day. (Still in the dog house) GLTA