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we are dealing with billions and possibly over a trillion in assets. No one knows and until we know for sure, this is a great speculative bet.
I have to agree with all of you. This is the calm before the storm. There are hundreds of billions of Lehman dollars and assets out there and this will drag out for some time. There is too big of a chance of something positive happening to even think about giving up. I sleep well. :)
it isn't a loss or a profit until you sell. That's what I keep telling myself lol
Lehman assets a "dog's breakfast": Barclays president
Barclays Plc President Bob Diamond makes his way to the U.S. Bankruptcy Court in New York June 21, 2010. REUTERS/Keith Bedford
On Tuesday June 22, 2010, 1:48 pm EDT
By Chelsea Emery
NEW YORK (Reuters) - Barclays Plc's President Robert Diamond said on Tuesday that Lehman creditors fared better under his bank's purchase of Lehman Brothers core U.S. brokerage business than they would have if the assets had been sold on the open market.
The testimony came on the second day of a trial over whether the British bank received an unfair $11 billion windfall when it acquired parts of Lehman Brothers after the investment bank's collapse in September 2008. Lehman wants the judge to review the sale.
The trial, held at Manhattan's bankruptcy court for the Southern District of New York, has brought the testimony of the top architects of the Lehman purchase. The deal was approved in September 2008 after a chaotic few days of negotiations that took place as U.S. markets were collapsing.
Barclays Chief Executive John Varley took the stand on Tuesday after Diamond. In early testimony before a break, he called the Lehman purchase "the riskiest week in my life." Varley's testimony will resume at 2 P.M. EST.
'DOG'S BREAKFAST'
Diamond faced tough questions on whether creditors would have benefited more if some assets had been sold on the open market rather than being acquired by Barclays.
"I think they were better off under the deal," Diamond said.
He added he was not able to specify the value of the assets because markets were gyrating, making valuation impossible.
Barclays was "struggling to find (Lehman) securities," during the chaotic week, Diamond said.
"Some had no value on the books, some were more illiquid. It was a real dog's breakfast. There were some issues with marks being old and some marks were fairly current," he added.
Diamond was also asked if bankruptcy judge James Peck had received all information about the valuation of Lehman assets at the September 19, 2008, sales hearing.
"I have confidence that the lawyers from all sides presented the information that was necessary for approval," said Diamond, who had not attended the hearing.
Diamond's testimony displayed little of the bob-and-weave answers that characterized his first session on the stand on Monday. Repeatedly, Lehman attorney Robert Gaffey entreated Diamond to answer questions with a simple "yes" or "no," rather than long explanations.
"You're coming across as evasive," Judge James Peck told Diamond.
In contrast on Tuesday, Diamond gave short answers. He was serious and sat up straight, looking at Gaffey and Barclays attorney David Boies. He leaned forward to give his answers into the court microphone.
INFLATED ASSETS?
Barclays has said Lehman's assets were inflated when the deal was struck and it marked them to their true value. It has accused Lehman's lawyers of trying to change the deal after markets improved.
"The marks were taken on Friday night," said Varley. "By Monday morning, as markets were falling, those marks were irrelevant."
Varley has run Barclays since 2004 and steered his bank through the crisis without any need for state aid. A keen angler and table tennis player, known for his precise language and close attention to detail, he was less involved in the transaction and had not been expected to be called.
The case is In re: Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc, U.S. Bankruptcy Court, Southern District of New York, No. 08-13555.
Bankrupt Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc (Other OTC:LEHMQ.PK - News) has asked for permission to make a new $255 million debt investment in a New York building, saying the stake would protect Lehman's earlier investments, which could be wiped out if another party acquired the debt.
The investment bank already has a $437 million stake in the building, which is located on a valuable stretch of Park Avenue, according to court documents released on Monday.
Lehman, which collapsed in September 2008, has filed a motion in New York bankruptcy court to purchase the B Note of a senior debt facility, using estate funds.
"Making a new investment in 237 Park by purchasing the B Note from the seller has significant upside for Lehman Brothers Holdings and represents the best means of protecting LBHI's current investment ... which could potentially be wiped out if a party other than LBHI acquires the B Note and pursues a foreclosure of the B Note," the company wrote in its motion to U.S. Bankruptcy Judge James Peck at the New York bankruptcy court.
Lehman had originated some $1.23 billion in loans to finance the purchase of the 21-storey building in May 2007.
"LBHI in consultation with the official committee of unsecured creditors will seek to purchase the B Note at the most favorable terms possible," said Lehman. "However acquisition of the B Note even at its par value represents a valuable investment for LBHI and its estate."
The documents did not give more details about the possible value. A call to Lehman's attorney at Weil Gotshal was directed to another Lehman representative, who was not immediately available to comment.
Broadway Partners owns the building, which occupies the entire block-front on Park Ave between 45th and 46th streets.
(Reporting by Chelsea Emery, editing by Matthew Lewis)
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Bankrupt-Lehman-seeks-more-rb-3821209059.html?x=0&.v=1
I wonder if someone tried out your theory since we only have one sale of 100k shares at 2 pennies. lol
I think you just illustrated my point for me. It is impossible to buy them at 2 cents. I would love to buy 100k shares at 2 pennies and have had orders in for 100k shares multiple times in the past couple weeks and haven't had any filled. On the flip side, if you went and tried selling 100k shares at 2 pennies a pop, they would get snagged up in a heartbeat. That is the point I am trying to make.
so a 44 dollar sale is supposed to set the market for the pricing of that security? Was that anything other than the MM manipulating the price? Have you had any success buying C/T's at a couple pennies?
lmao you want me to offer to sell a huge chunk of shares at the bid? Ya I will get right on that.
thats what the MM wants you to think so you panic sell IMO. Look at the tapes for the past few weeks as it has been dragged down. It has mostly been 50k to 100k volume per day with a couple exceptions (where they got sellers to freak out and sell cheaply). Most transactions have been from $10 to $100 in size. This isn't a selloff on a worthless stock, its a MM engineered selloff. All my own opinion but I don't think this is worthless. If it was, we would be seeing massive selling and that just isn't the case here.
The way I read the POR is they will share in LAMCO. I thought it was pretty clear reading it that they would.
very astute reply. you are a great ally to have. thanks for your work you have put in on this.
All it takes is one positive development and it will spike upwards. I have done enough DD to think something positive is coming. If nothing good comes, I bought myself a share in LAMCO :). At these prices, it would be in my opinion foolish to sell.
Bravo on the best post I have read on this board in a long time. You just articulated why I am in this stock.
imo that is what will kickstart the stock price. There is just too much of a fishy smell coming from that transaction and Peck has shown himself to be fair. Lets hope Barclays realizes this and offers to settle sooner rather than later.
I saw a bid when I checked on Scottrade. I have not seen any sustained buying under 3 cents other than some MM shenanigans. 3 cents itself is tough to get filled much less anything lower. Am I missing something?
So it closes at 2 cents and the bid was at 3 cents all day. The ask was at 4.5 cents all day. And we had volume of less than 50k for the day. Is anyone really thinking this is really only worth 2 cents? I welcome the chance for it to go down to that level for real cause I will double or even triple my position if it does.
So now that the reverse split has taken effect, can YA start dilluting again? Has the authorized share count shrunk by a multiple of 100 or does it stay the same. I think the technology is great and if it wasn't for YA's blatant thievery, this stock would be worth something. Being the way it sits though, unless the authorized share count got shrunk also, this looks like a bad deal. Anyone know?
I stopped caring about the share price. I know it is worth more and it will go to higher levels even if it drops to a penny. I have dry gunpowder to average down if it goes down anymore. Personally, I think we will see a run upwards soon. I think Barclays will settle with us and that will be the catalyst. Maybe it is wishful thinking but stranger things have happened.
nothing but good
Attorneys for Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc (Other OTC:LEHMQ.PK - News) and Barclays Plc (LSE:BARC.L - News) sparred in court on Monday as they began a trial over whether the British bank received an improper $11.2 billion windfall from its takeover of Lehman's core U.S. brokerage in September 2008.
Lehman Brothers board member Michael Ainslie and former Lehman chief operating officer and president Herbert "Bart" McDade were the first to testify in the dispute, which focuses on whether Barclays should be forced to return assets to Lehman.
McDade, one of the chief architects of the hurried deal to sell Lehman's flagship brokerage in 2008, testified on Monday that the deal was the best at the time, but that he also understood then that the deal "was not meant to have an embedded gain" for Barclays on day one.
Lehman filed the largest bankruptcy in history on September 15, 2008, and less than a week later sold its flagship U.S. brokerage business to Barclays for about $1.85 billion.
But Lehman is now asking Judge James Peck of the U.S. bankruptcy court in Manhattan to make changes to the order that authorized the deal. Lehman said a new investigation revealed that the sale described to the court was not the sale actually executed.
Attorneys for Lehman claimed that Barclays received an $11.2 billion immediate windfall profit on the assets it acquired, while the court was told that the sale would actually give Lehman a benefit of about $4 billion in terms of reduced liabilities and cash.
Ainslie, who has served on Lehman's board since 1996, testified on Monday that he understood the deal would be "a wash" or "break-even" and that he did not remember hearing anything about an immediate profit for Barclays at the time.
"It was a very simple deal in reality -- assets equal liabilities and that was very clear to me," Ainslie testified.
Many of the attorneys' questions focused on whether Lehman's "marks," or the market values it put on its assets, could be believed at the time of the deal. Lehman has claimed that Barclays and Lehman employees secretly reduced the book value of Lehman's assets by $5 billion.
McDade testified, however, that Barclays and Lehman were simply trying to find a price they could agree on, during an unusual time for the markets.
"It was the most unusual week in my 25 years of market experience," McDade testified, noting that valuations of Lehman's assets were changing wildly throughout the week. "Clearly the valuation had to reflect the uncertainty at that time."
David Boies, an attorney representing Barclays, asked whether Lehman knew at the time that many of its asset values on the books were months old. Other attorneys asked if the $2.5 billion liability taken on by Barclays for Lehman's employees was an inflated number.
Judge Peck is not expected to make any decision on the dispute until at least September, as the trial is scheduled to occur in two phases.
Barclays President Bob Diamond is expected to take the stand later in the trial.
The case is In re: Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc, U.S. Bankruptcy Court, Southern District of New York, No. 08-13555.
(Reporting by Emily Chasan and Caroline Humer; Editing by Steve Orlofsky)
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Trial-begins-in-Lehman-rb-2968599197.html?x=0&.v=1
a 30 dollar trade at that
great work Troy. Keep it up...we all owe you.
and then they use 6k shares to tap the price back down to .042.....nothing but games being played
looks like it got tapped at 200k twice.
all we need is some good news about our court date with Barclays and this will gap up imo. Wether or not we get it today is up in the air.
Very good news for us. At least they are earning their fees.
its all Barclays next Monday. Should be interesting to say the least.
cause they fear easily? or they need the money. can not think of any other reason to be selling at these levels. It is double down territory at this point IMHO
thatll explain it. thanks Hammer.
P.S. I am in the mortgage industry and Aurora was among the worst of the worst. That stat that about 90% of their portfolio was liars loans is about right. A lot of pass thru lenders would use their guidelines to underwrite off of and then sell it to Aurora afterwards. They were notorious for having a stated loan for non owner occupied investment properties that let you borrow 100% of the value of the home on a purchase all the way down to a 620 FICO score. They were pushing it like there was literally no tomorrow back in 2006.
I was doing a little research. It seems to be a REIT and they have to pay dividends or they end up having to pay federal taxes. How it falls outside bankruptcy protection is a mystery to me. Maybe someone knows?
ty for the explanation.
come again?
Here is a video of Elmer Fuld in front of Congress getting grilled
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/04/20/richard-fuld-former-lehma_n_545251.html
any since the beginning of last year? I think that is when they went to not giving out paper copies even if requested.
I would ask for them now but I don't think Scottrade allows you to have physical possession of your shares but thats a rant for another day.
I agree 100% with you that they are playing down the assets and hyping up the liabilities right now to get debtors to accept pennies on the dollar. The door is being left open for us with that new share of LAMCO being created so ultimately, we will benefit from this.
I'm holding on to my shares not even thinking of selling at these levels. This will go back up. Once everyone figures out that the door is being left open for us to get paid, I think this goes back up.