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Deaf - got to call you out on this one. Your unwavering commitment to MSLP is cute, but you are incorrect on the large cap comment. A large cap company is defined as one having a market capitalization of over $10 billion. There are only 400 or so of these in the US and almost all have quarterly revenue in excess of $20 million.
I agree deaf. So do you believe that MSLP is not paying promoters to pump their stock. I hope not because it is a very bad signal IMO if it is true.
Semantics. They are restating their previously released financial statements. While earnings may not be impacted, sales will. It matters and does not reflect positively on the company.
What has caused you to have such a love affair with the company that you refuse to acknowledge their mistakes? There is a reason they are trading for barely over a penny.
Vinnie you really are grasping at straws. The number of auditors they have gone through is very uncommon and is a red flag. Try not to comment on things that you have no clue of. It makes you look ignorant. If they had some consistency with their auditors I doubt they would be going through an embarrassing restatement of earnings (actually losses)?
On the Blutto thing, if he is such a star then what is he doing with these losers? If he is so smart then clearly they aren't listening to him. The stock is down 60% since he started.
Finally, you are correct about the sales growth. How's that working out for you? The stock is down 98.4% in the time they have grown sales 249,000%.
Good question Dakota (or should I call you Ben). I really can't figure out the Bluhner thing. His resume is impressive. So what is he doing working for $85k for MSLP?
Is it a part time gig? Is it a no time gig and they are using him for his gray hair? Is he damaged goods (the extra marital affair thing with a reality tv personality is disconcerting)?
Either way, he has been around for enough of the rookie mistakes that counting on him to save the day makes little sense to me. Are they going to suddenly start listening to him?
It should also require a claw back on the bonuses (cash and shares).
Not true vinnie. I have a loss but bought much lower than you think. Also, read my history. I give credit when credit is due.
Bluhner has been around for a year. He was around for the 2011 bonus plan. The piggies think that he is so indispensable that they didn't include him in the money grab.
He is so important to the organization that they pay him $85k. There are secretaries that make more.
He has been around for the dilution, firing auditors, bonuses, Lambo, boat, murals, etc.
The stock price is all that matters to me. It tough to deposit a press release in the bank.
I said before that I am in the show me camp. These guys have done some very bad things in the past (self serving bonuses, ignoring contracts, etc). It's going to take more than words for me to regain trust in them. Pretty simple concept to understand.
Pretty sure he just recently got convicted. It may be old news to some, but I think it's new news to most people. It has received a ton of play recently.
Just to be clear, you don't see the inconsistency?
Those of you expecting St. Bluhner to come to the rescue, hasn't he been there for over a year? When is his magic spell going to kick in?
Fast - I know that you are in the group that refuses to acknowledge anything negative about MSLP. So if everything is so perfect then why is the stock $.016? If everything is so perfect, then why does the stock continue to go down despite all of the great news?
Perhaps a dose of reality will help. Good brand. Good marketing. Tons of potential, crappy management.
Try again fast money. I am saying that management is being inconsistent with the Jeremy issue and sending mixed signals to their loyal users. Nothing more, nothing less.
Maybe they had to go through the financials because they are on their fifth auditor in three years. I am with Dakota, rank amateurs. The kids need to stick to playing with their toys and hanging out at the parties and let the grown ups make the decisions over there.
Yet they have a convicted steroid distributor as a company President. I applaud the desire to have high quality products in a shady industry, it just seems inconsistent to associate yourselves with the Jeremy's of the world.
All IMO. Pumpers, go justify away...
It would also be illegal.
So you were quoting gross vs. Net margins? Who cares about gross margins? Still avoiding my question...
We are going to have to agree to disagree on this one Superman. My experience with contract produced product is much different than 40% - 60% margins. Are you aware of how few companies have margins like that? Why isn't everyone in the contract manufacturing business? WMT? PG? INTC?
So does this mean that you are willing to sign up for a 937 million share round of dilution if your estimate of $15 million to get in house production is correct?
So with your conservative estimate of $15 million (which is currently over 60% of the market cap of the entire company) it would only cost us 937 million shares. Not a bad deal to make an extra 10%.
Can we see if they can right the ship before we let them dilute us another 60% to take on another undertaking that they have no expertise in? In the future are you going to recommend that they have their own MMA fights? Their own advertising? Perhaps buy their own TV station? Create their own Internet? Buy farms to grow their own wheat?
Obviously I am exaggerating, but the point is just because they are giving up some margin outsourcing is not all bad.
Correct. So unless you have them going in the distribution and retail business we agree that we are talking 10% to 15%.
You still haven't answered my one dimensional question, how much to bring it in house?
I really hope they don't screw you over deaf. I think between the parties, new houses, fancy cars, etc they forget that there are real people out there like you that are counting on them.
Part of the problem Dakota is that they seem to have trouble keeping auditors. I think they are on their fifth or sixth.
(go ahead and bash away those of you that can't handle a single negative comment about MSLP)
They currently do not pay for product before it is delivered. So in addition they are not responsible for any raw material storage (this includes ingredients and packaging). Easily 200 items. They would need at least three manufacturing lines (powder, pills and gel). They will need to higher and train dozens of employees.
So in your "experience" Superman, what is your estimate of cost to bring manufacturing in house?
Is four years soon to be profitable?
Way premature for them to bring manufacturing in house. People need to park that issue for awhile. I think a conservative guess is $30 million to buy the property, equipment and net working capital.
Also, I don't think contract manufacturers are making 30% margins. My experience is in the 10% to 15% range. Good money, but they need to get other things right first IMO.
Btw...for all of you clamoring for in house manufacturing, get ready for the mother of all dilutions...IMO.
IMO they lost trust and confidence through excessive spending, excessive compensation and diluting into any positive news. Regaining trust a confidence takes a lot of time. It is rebuilt by being consistent and doing what you say you are going to do. Filing late, failing to release executive compensation details and more dilution would be a major step in the wrong direction. All IMO.
Agreed. It looks like the company is taking the steps to make them more appealing to institutional investors (a positive PR on corporate governance). Now they need to execute so it ends up being real change versus more lip service.
Not good for their image. They should be careful with this one. Core to the product value proposition is clean, high quality and banned substance free ingredients. Having a convicted steroid distributor as a company President does not look good.
Odessa how much capital do you estimate it would take to bring manufacturing in house?
In addition to property, plant and equipment I suspect that they would be on the hook for all working capital (packaging, raw materials, fp inventory, etc).
I get it's part of the business but when a company is diluting to do that stuff it's a little harder to justify IMO.
Yes and no. Much of the dilution was excessive or unnecessary (cars, boats, gym, parties, bonuses, etc). Also, they could of diluted a lot less if they were able to prop up the PPS a little. Check the filings, they gave away (I mean sold) hundreds of millions of shares at a fraction of a penny.
So how much Euc do you estimate that it would cost them to get a mfg operation up and running (including working capital)?
Climb back in your hole vinnie. Vision is not a PPS decline of 98%. They got addicted to dilution once they went public and the toxic financiers provided the drug.
Manufacturing in house would require a massive investment. They would have to hire and train dozens of employees, get a building, buy and build multiple manufacturing lines (powder, gel and pills), inventory raw materials and packaging, etc.
Much bigger undertaking than you think and an eight figure investment.
Gross margin has been stuck at 35% the past two quarters despite incremental sales growth. Co packing agreement must be based upon a guaranteed margin with out breaks. Worth keeping an eye on in the upcoming quarters.
It is obvious that you have never engaged in a venture capital or private transaction. Stick to commenting on things you have clue about.
So the CEO is a multi time bankruptcy filer, one President is a convicted felon and the other comes from the coal mines of West Virginia...
I kind of feel stupid for getting mad when these clowns do unethical things. What do you expect?
The good news is that the brand is strong and innovative and there are adults around them. If they listen to the adults we make a lot of money. If not, this thing goes to zero. No middle ground IMO.
Vinnie i could care less if they use promoters or not. I doesn't speak to great confidence in the merits of your company selling itself,
Why did MSLP use paid promoters earlier this year if they are not pumpers?
I appreciate it Coach, but why do you think they will voluntarily give up part of the 2011 bonus? Have they said anything to this effect?
I think we all agree the 2011 bonus bordered on highway robbery, but from the outside these guys SEEM IMO to feel entitled to a dominant ownership percentage of the company. Were it not for dilution I do think they would deserve a large percentage. They chose to dilute. Not us.
I think revenues beyond $75 million for the year is priced in already. With a Q1 of $19 million, $75 million would mean they are no longer growing sequentially.