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Bob is investigating this and getting it resolved. Its always best to run stuff like this by management in case they are unaware. Believe it or not but they don't know everything.
Andy
The only reason I suggested a dividend is because I just don't see what else they can do to goose the PPS. Making money sure doesn't seem to work. I'm sure the price will go up when they report 2nd quarter sales and profits, but only by a penny or two.
A slow grind higher. On the other hand if they accumulate enough cash to cover the unexpected, then start paying a dividend, I think the price would take off.
Buying back the stock might do it as well.
Andy
In my opinion the stock is seriously undervalued here.
Only if the sales turn into substantial profits. First quarter showed a net 15% profit margin. I think that has to grow in order for the stock to get any attention.
At the rate they are going they quite possibly might be able to record a cash position of $2 million or more by the end of the year.
What do you think would happen if they started a quarterly dividend of a quarter a cent per share, or one cent over a year?
That's an 11% yield. You think maybe VTSI might get some attention if they started paying such a dividend?
I did put the question to Bob.
Andy
I'm pretty certain Bob is looking for ten to twenty times the current price, based on conversations and emails. I just don't think he really knows how to get that other than doing what he has been doing. Grow the company, generate sales and profits, come out with new product.
Eventually....
Andy
Maybe they want a cusion to cover the unexpected, after years of raising money by selling stock. Eventually they might start paying a dividend. A penny a share would certainly boost the price.
Andy
Does it occur to anyone that Bob may be hiring a controller because of doing business with Gander Mountain? Some pretty large contracts here, perhaps they put some rules on Virtra. Or Bob decided they needed a more professional organization to grow. I don't see uplisting in the near future. They may plan to do that but I would not get too excited about the prospect. Uplisting to OTC.BB means SEC reporting, a bit more expensive than what they do now.
I should think Bob would be focusing on building a very comfortable cash balance before uplisting to OTC.BB or even the AMEX.
Andy
I emailed Bob and asked him why they don't promote wider ownership of the company, as well as bragging about their success. Seemed like a win-win for all of us, especially Bob. $66K per penny.
Andy
Virtra does virtrally nothing to raise awareness of its prospects in the investment community. I'm not sure why since of all of the small companies I get notified about via paid promoters Virtra certainly has one of the best stories to talk about. and they are solidly profitable and look to continue that for as far as the eye can see.
As for GM vs TD, GM is adding the Virtra stuff to existing stores that already have traffic related to the academy, TD was academy only.
Andy
So Gander Mountain is a cash cow. When will the PPS recognize this? Someone has to get this information out to the greater world. Virtra clearly isn't going to do this.
Andy
All I see is a rising trendline going back to the bottom of July 2008 with a falling trendline from October 2010 to the present, forming a giant symmetrical triangle. Based on rising sales and earnings its only a matter of time before the PPS breaks out on the upside.
We just have to be patient. Summer is usually a slow time for VTSI price movement, maybe with accelerating earnings this time will be different? I don't see how as earnings won't kick in until August.
What VTSI needs is more visibility. I'm cautiously optimistic that some of the people going to Gander will want to invest in the company that produces the excitement at the academies. They cannot invest in Gander.
Andy
Bob is investigating....
Andy
I signed up too, and they finally sent the report on VTSI:
VIRTRA SYSTEMS INC (NASDAQ:VTSI) Strong Uptrend
Smart Scan Chart Analysis confirms that a strong uptrend is in place and that the market remains positive longer term. Strong Uptrend with money management stops. A triangle indicates the presence of a very strong trend that is being driven by strong forces and insiders.
Based on a pre-defined weighted trend formula for chart analysis, VTSI scored +100 on a scale from -100 (strong downtrend) to +100 (strong uptrend):
+10 Last Hour Close Above 5 Hour Moving Average
+15 New 3 Day High on Wednesday
+20 Last Price Above 20 Day Moving Average
+25 New 3 Week High, Week Ending April 30th
+30 New 3 Month High in March
+100 Total Score
There was a chart but we all know what it looks like so I did not see any need to post it. I'm not sure where they placed the green trade triangle.
These are the same people I use for Forex charting of Oil, Gold and the Dollar and other commodities, even though I'm not a paid member. I have followed their trade triangle processes and for the most part they do pretty good. Their short term signals are a bit iffy, they got short term traders out of Gold at $1496 on April 25th, missing the next $80 of increase. The trade was profitable, but.... They kept medium and long term traders in.
It will be interesting to see how they do with VTSI.
Andy
I wonder how many police forces will want their own simulator, and how many will actually have to funds to purchase? GM has to be wonderful advertising for more sales direct to the end user.
The GM academies enable many towns and cities to get training on the cheap. Its only a matter of time before some town or city decides its cheaper to do their own than pay GM.
As broke as most municipalities are there are still many that are not, and with the rise in tensions police training takes on much more importance.
The GM academies also might attract foreign buyers as well, to test the products before buying. No need to broadcast your interest in such training before you have the information to make a purchase decision.
JMO
Andy
Bob doesn't think they can do this under Texas law.
RE: "I haven't reviewed VirTra's articles of incorporation, but most corporation's articles grant this power to the directors."
Someday the buying pressure will send the price skyward!
I notice that heavy purchase volume got the price to 9.9 cents before a little bit of selling knocked it back down. This is why we need a RS, to reduce the float so a bunch of small trades don't control the price.
I just wish management had asked for a 1 for 10 or 20 instead of 1 for 100.
Andy
I'm in full agreement. I suggested to Bob that he do a 1 for 20 reverse split in January to both get the stock above a dollar and the earnings per share to have some meaning. I was stunned when he sprung the 1 for 100 RS.
Then the mess with the rest of the proxy, plus the way it was handled.
Its like nobody at Virtra did ANY research on how such proposals would be received by the shareholders. It clearly wasn't hard for this group to find that information, pro and con.
Did they read "The Gang That Couldn't Shoot Straight" for advice on how to do this?
Andy
Would a 1 for 20 RS be more palatable?
I suggested to Bob back in January or February that he should consider a 1 for 20 RS to get the price above a dollar a share, then if they could deliver on sales and earnings the market would take care of the rest. I was floored by the 1 for 100 he proposed. But better than than staying in the pennies forever, which is what it was looking like we would do.
I wanted the price above a dollar a share because I have a cousin that manages OPM, and he told me he cannot touch anything under a dollar. Doesn't matter where it trades, just cannot trade under a dollar for any sustained period of time. I suspect there are a lot of institutions who operate the same way.
Yes, a listing on NASDAQ would be preferable, but without a very fast climb up the charts AND an RS we aren't going to get that anytime too soon.
Now that the vote has been cancelled do you think a 1 for 20 RS plus a published intention to uplist as soon as the price trades above $4 for some sustained period of time would be more acceptable to the shareholders?
We have to do something to get out of the penny stock range. $1.30 looks a lot more interesting than 6.5 cents. And knowing the company is intending to uplist as soon as the price goes much higher should certainly smooth some of the ruffled feathers.
Is this a perfect plan? No. But staying down where we are certainly isn't very appealing, especially since the only people who are going to buy the stock are individuals. We know where that takes us.
As for the argument about foreign sales, I should think $1.30 is better than 6.5 cents, and that maybe management should be more confident of future success, considering that in the words of their customers they have the BEST product and the BEST service.
Andy
To join the conspiracy group.
I'm wondering if they haven't got plans to do a series of forward splits once this reverse split is approved. The market distrusts reverse splits but usually looks favorably on forward splits. So maybe doing one really large RS paves the way for smaller FS's into the future, as sales and earnings increase.
Might be a way to push the price higher, as well as increase the available float.
Andy
Why don't the naysayers just buy the company?
Seems to me the people who are against the RS should band together and do a buyout. Then they could fire current management and run it the way they want. No more need to complain about management on this or any other forum.
Just make sure you offer enough of a premium over the current price to get 51% of the stock.
Andy
If we knew that then the budget would be balanced, we would never have another recession or depression, inflation would be dead, and the list goes on....
Andy
What if there are buyers who balk at a penny price for the stock?
Should Virtra just write them off as foolish idiots who should know better? Suppose they represent $20 million in potential sales? Just speculation, but is it beyond reason that there are companies that do not buy from penny stock sources?
Andy
When did I say it had no effect? Please point me to my post that said that.
Andy
I'm just looking for real evidence that what you claim will happen will happen. And where do you get "You just won't admit to any possibility other than your original premise that Ferris said it would cost too much to do anything." other than making it up?
Andy
Absolutely! If you've been in this stock as long as I have then seeing it drop to 6.5 cents or even lower is nothing new. Not until they start delivering substantial earnings growth year over year (quarterly)do I expect to see the price start climbing over time. And stay that way.
The RS is just a red herring. If the company starts making REAL money then nothing else matters.
Find me a growth stock making 20% gains year over year each quarter that has a falling stock price over the same time period. Any stock will do.
Andy
You clearly have NOT been reading all the messages on this forum. Several people have pointed out very successful RS situations. So stating that ALL RS stocks crash is an outright falsehood.
You are going to have to do better than that to convince me and others that a RS is bad for the company and the stock.
REAL facts, REAL evidence.
Start by proving that ALL companies with growing revenue and earnings that do a RS fall in price after the split. Produce concrete examples.
Thank you,
Andy
Someone or some group needs to buy 51% to get control. Just what do you think is going to happen to the PPS if all this buying takes place? And wouldn't it be a LOT easier at 7 cents than 7 dollars where buying at 7 cents barely has any effect?
Andy
Nobody has explained WHY the RS will tank the price to something they can afford. Assuming the split happens today the price would be ~$7 with a PE of 11, and a market cap of $11 million. No change from today.
What EXACTLY do you think will happen after the split? Not conjecture, but what EXACTLY do you think will happen? And how? And also please explain what other investors are doing while your supposed event takes place. (I'm assuming a fast fall in the price)
Andy
I've been reading all the conspiracy theory stuff about how Ferris et al is out to screw us, but what I cannot understand is just how they are going to do that? The only way I can see minority management buying out the company is by making an offer. If Ferris was going to do that why waste time with the proxy? Why not just make the offer and be done with it?
Andy
Simple Question: At what price can we get off the pinks?
Can we get off the pinks at 7 cents? 14 cents? 70 cents? At what price are we likely to be able to uplist successfully?
If we don't do the RS how long will it take to get the price up to where we can uplist? Try and be realistic, based on past performance and what you think the future holds for GM and other possible sales.
Ignore the potential liabilities of staying where we are or at the current price, and what effect that might have on future sales.
Andy
You don't see any difference between a 1 for 30,000 reverse split followed by a 30,000 to 1 forward split and Virtra's 1 for 100 reverse split?
Andy
Not me! I'm a Virtra addict. I think its going to the moon one day so I want to go along for the ride. Probably pretty stupid of me as I'm sure there are better stocks to invest in. (I do have my eye on a gold stock that executed an almost perfect H&S top over the last year and a half. Target is $1 a share, currently a couple of pennies over $2.50)
I'm one of those investors that gets emotional about the stocks they own.
Andy
My impression of the CC was that they had discussions on where to go from here and decided that a RS should be the first step towards a possible uplisting. And it eliminates the perceived barrier of a penny stock company going after foreign orders where the stock price might make a difference.
I do not think the management is all that up on how to run a company from the perspective of "proper procedures". But then I'm not investing in VTSI with the expectation of anything other than the operating side, figuring that when they started accumulating real resources they could address some of these other issues later.
Keep in mind that the company almost went under a few years ago. At one point in 2008 the market value was all of ~$260,000.
I think Bob has done a wonderful job of bringing it back from the grave. Today's value is almost $12,000,000.
If some shareholder's expectations are too high for what Virtra can do then maybe they should sell out and invest in something they are more comfortable with.
Andy
Can you guarantee we will get to 20 cents doing that? Or is this just another wishful prediction like we've seen many, many times for the last 5 years or so?
It's going to 50! Its going to 50!
Andy
What drove the price down to 4 cents last May?
There was no proxy, no RS, nothing about unaudited financials, just nothing. Yet the price fell to 4 cents in May of 2010 and actually traded as low as 3.5 cents in June. So the price gyrates up and down. mostly down, even though it is way up from a few years ago.
The price rose steadily from almost nothing to 14 cents between June/July 2008 to October 2009. Since then its been flatlined. What stopped the advance? Why didn't it just continue the rise? Why are we stuck at plus or minus 7 cents?
It looks to do that forever, no matter what good news the company posts. For any other stock the GM news and debt free information would send it through the roof. Not Virtra.
So we languish on the pinks with a penny stock price. We can stay here forever and watch the stock do nothing. There only appears to be a limited market for the stock - the people on this board and other message boards, plus the occasional new investor who somehow finds out about the company, probably because they tried out the product. But not enough to create a sustained rise in the PPS.
You suppose that maybe, just maybe, a stock price north of $4.00 might attract some attention, with earnings per share of 64 cents, unaudited or otherwise? How many investors use a stock screener that eliminates ALL companies selling under a certain price? Say a dollar?
As I see it we can gyrate between 4 cents and 14 cents forever, or we can try and move forward and go for something better.
What have we got to lose? Do nothing and stay where we are, make the change and either move forward or stay where we are. Can't be any worse than its been for the last year or so.
Andy
I'm on the planet where most investors do not do their DD when they invest, just like many of the buyers of houses in the last few years did not do the same before they bought.
Evidently you live in a world that does do this. More power to you.
I think Virtra has more intelligent investors than most small companies.
I listened to a CC for a gold stock the other day. $750 million market cap, but only three people asked questions. The stock has been falling from a high of $5.00 to the present $2.60, in the face of a 15% upmove for gold, yet only three investors got involved in the CC.
Andy
On my advice he bought into Virtra a couple of months ago. He cannot invest ANY of his clients accounts into Virtra, not until it trades above $5 for a sustained period of time, and not until he sees evidence of real consistent growth. He is very successful, mostly because he is very careful.
There are various rules he has to follow, and price is one of them.
Andy
I seriously doubt any institutional investor is going to invest in Virtra until the float is large enough to allow active trading, as well as getting listed on the NASDAQ. I've listened to the CC several times. I walk away from it with the understanding that an $8 share price is just a start. Rome was not built in a day, but some people on this board expect Virtra to do just that.
And yes, I do understand about exchanges, brokers and online brokers. Problem is you seem to think ALL investors know everything there is to know about investing. Most don't, and what's more, they don't care. They just want to buy something that looks good.
In fact, most investors get very emotional about their stocks. Of course nobody on this board does that. Nothing but cold, hard logic.
Andy
Don said in the CC he believes sales will conservatively double this year over last, and for this growth to continue So I would expect earnings to do even better.
Most companies such as Virtra have a mostly fixed cost base for existing sales, so if they grow sales by 100% earnings should grow by a LOT more.
Andy
YES, I DO. BUT THAT DOES NOT MEAN EVERYONE ELSE DOES AS WELL. WE DO NOT LIVE IN A PERFECT WORLD
Sorry for the red caps, but for some strange reason some people just don't get it.
Why do you think so may people got in trouble with the mortgage mess? Is it because they both read and understood what would happen if something bad happened?
Andy
Not so. I bought quite a few resource Canadian stocks and the like that were priced in pennies. Sure, they told me about the risks, but I insisted. And made money. But I never recall asking about audited financials or being told they were not.
I just asked my cousin, who is a registered broker and financial advisor:
"I think the average investor assumes that a publicly traded company has audited financials."
In these days of buying stocks online I seriously doubt the issue comes up that often. I don't recall E-Trade or Scottrade saying anything about it when I bought Virtra stock.
Andy