Pacific Sands Inc (fka PFSD)

[ttubular]

I hold them n write them off my taxes as a loss. N do it again years down the road. I would never sell the shares back to those crooks

[longago]

You should review the financial statements you get from the company.

In the 12-31-23 annual report the shares outstanding were 340,630,000 so $.001 would mean the company is only worth $340,630.

They reported $348,934 in after tax earnings in Q1 ending 3-31-23.

The Company had 393 million shares o/s when it went private 5 years ago so if they have 340 million now they have bought back 53 million shares.

Why not ask the company what you could sell your shares for now?

[ttubular]

A share is probably worth .001

[longago]

Why not ask the company to do a repo?

That will tell us what they think the value is. Notice that when Terry distributed the numbers he included an ESV--Estimated Share Value as part of the package. These guys have dropped that. Let's see what the 3-31 numbers look like. Due out in the next 2 weeks.

[ttubular]

In my opinion This stock is worthless. What do u really think you can sell a share for?

[longago]

Please do see what FINRA says. You seem to place a lot of weight on that settlement. You are very right about the fact that the court will resolve this issue. There are some folks in the legal community that I have spoken to who believe that some of these legal costs expended by both sides will be recovered by Terry and also by the shareholders thru the court .

There is an old saying that sez you can't lose a lawsuit that does not end. It seems that this silly motion to dismiss was just a delay tactic and that just maybe shareholders will see it as such and call for some accountability from the BOD in addition to the outcome of the legal process.

I have my popcorn all ready to watch the legal drama later this year and anything that might happen before then.

Finally, shareholders can determine for themselves what the value of these shares are an if they want out of an investment in a company run by someone who is alleged to have stolen money from the people he has a duty to protect and the BOD who has taken no action to prevent it happening again.

Let us all know how fruitful your contact with FINRA is.

[pantherj]

You seem a little overly anxious, even gleeful, to indict others before they have had their day in court. You might want to consider the following points. 1) even if every shareholder agreed with everything you say, the decision will be made by the court based on the law and precedent. 2) It doesn't matter if you agree or disagree with the company's recent motion to dismiss. That is a matter the court will decide. 3) No matter how much money you say the company has spent defending itself, you have also had to spend a good deal. And it seems that which you have spent is weighing heavily on you, why else would you be so obviously seeking a settlement?

I am also aware that what I say, just as what you say, is also of no consequence to the court. Therefore I am seeking assistance from FINRA in this matter. They may have something to say about this constant nagging involvement of yours in a stock which you have been banned from for life because of your egregious attempts to illegally manipulate the price to enrich yourself and to the detriment of the shareholders you now claim to care so much about.

One other thought, i believe your post is nothing more than an attempt to panic investors into selling their shares to you at a favorable price.

[longago]

On Friday 4-19-24 the judge set Sept 4, 2024 as the date for oral arguments on the motion to dismiss the shareholder suit against PFSD and its Officers and Directors.

So far the Directors have spent over $200K of shareholder funds and all they have done is file a motion to dismiss this suit because, they claim, it was filed in the wrong court and used the wrong rules of procedure. REALLY??? How much would it have cost to settle this???

The company and its Officers continue to be in breach of many Federal and State laws including more fraudulent activity after the suit was filed that is just like some of the stated claims in the suit.

The company has D&O insurance but the directors have used only PS funds for this Suit. That indicates that the insurance company will not defend against the shareholder claims and will not pay any damages the court orders because the D&O carrier has no coverage for the illegal acts by Directors and Officers.

Nearly all of us has an annual performance review at our jobs. Nevada law requires all companies to hold an annual shareholder meeting for the purpose of electing the BOD to run the company for its shareholders. This BOD does not want you to inquire too deeply into how they are performing, or even ask for advice from us owners, so they continue to refuse to hold that election and performance review.

[longago]

One of the best places to separate fact from emotion and opinions is a court. In our case we have a Federal court, no less, that will see a document filed this Friday by PS. There will likely be a decision before the Q1 numbers come out about if the shareholder claim by Haggerty should be dismissed.

That claim includes several allegations that Michie reached his hand into the PS till and stole money from shareholders on multiple occasions.

Let's see what a judge says about if those claims have enough substance to be heard by a jury of fair minded residents of Milwaukee county.

[pantherj]

You are certainly entitled to your view. It changes nothing. My faith in Haggerty is forever destroyed by his known willingness to illegally manipulate & defraud others.

[longago]

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Overview
The Financial Industry Regulatory Authority is the largest independent regulator for all securities firms doing business in the United States. FINRA's mission is to protect investors by making sure the United States securities industry operates fairly and honestly. As of October 2023, FINRA oversaw 3,394 brokerage firms, 149,887 branch offices and approximately 612,457 registered securities representatives.[5][6][7]

Don't see any authority to be involved in the operation of private companies and their owners.

[pantherj]

I expected that would be your reply.

[longago]

Your limited knowledge of the law and business is showing again.

FINRA has no control over the internal affairs of a private company.

If Haggerty wants to buy shares he can do it without limitation.

[pantherj]

Your post is the first I have heard of this. Not sure how your plan could work in light of the FINRA lifetime ban. I am sure they would not, under any circumstances, allow Haggerty to be a part of buying/controlling a stock in which he was convicted of illegal manipulation. Speaking for myself, I would not be part of any such scheme with Haggerty and would likely ask FINRA to take a look at the entire mess.

As for the BOD, I have no way of knowing what they would or would not do. Nor do I know what they may have planned for the future. I* would hope it to be to increase the gross revenue, the net revenue and better market the company and its products. It isn't that I am disappointed in the progress already made. I simply think there is much, much more than can be done to improve all shareholders positions.

Why focus on internal gamesmanship and personal vendettas when there are 10s & 10s of millions of realistic potential customers for our products out there? I believe the possibilities to be nearly limitless. We just have to step out and make an effort to get it done.

[longago]

I know Terry began a stock repo program in 2019 as soon as the company went private. Mentioned in the quarterly and annual reports for years.

393 million o/s then but now down somewhere into the low 300s.

You talk to the BOD so you could tell us what the numbers are and if they plan to continue that program.

Also I had breakfast on Sat with a couple folks and heard that a group of existing shareholders may want to buy more shares using a tender offer after Q1 DD. What have you heard about that and would the BOD participate in that to further reduce o/s and boost share prices.

[ttubular]

U must be kidding. We will never see our money back

[longago]

Still does.

Has been profitable for 7 1/2 years.

[ttubular]

What’s really sad is this company had such great potential.

[pantherj]

I know your disappointment. I believe that the company has, from time to time, repurchased shares. I don't know that they are still doing so, nor at what price. I wish I could be of more help to you.

[pantherj]

Then I suggest that you do rely on the legal process!! Rather than whining and crying like a six year old with a skinned and trying to drum up sympathy so people will join you in your "cause." Where was your nobility and your cause when you were found guilty of illegally manipulating PFSD stock? How much money did your illegal activities cost we shareholders?

BTW, I have not, repeat NOT, communicated with the company on any matter. So, go slime the next person. You seem to be an inveterate liar. Eventually, you will slip up and hang yourself. Have a pleasant day

When you communicated with the company the last few days did they mention how this quarter is going?

[ttubular]

What’s the difference what happens with the court case this company is going nowhere. What ever we all invested is gone. You can’t even sell the stock. Really sad how this ended up.

[longago]

The court case file is an open record that you can read.

Case includes accusations of the CEO taking money from the company on multiple occasions in addition to the stock cert issue.

Company filed a motion to dismiss in response.

Feb 23 the shareholder response was filed with several interesting legal claims that seem to contradict your emotional postings here.

This Friday the company has a deadline to file a rebuttal of those claims. After that the Judge will rule.

I for one will rely on the legal process rather than your limited review of the facts.

That is all history.

When you communicated with the company the last few days did they mention how this quarter is going?

[pantherj]

There is not an ounce of truth in that story. Besides that, it seems the BOD can vote people in and out as it wishes. It is in the by-laws. all i hear from you is "Wah, Wah, Wah!!

[pantherj]

Exactly!!
IF TERRY KNEW ABOUT IT,WHY DID HE KEEP IT SECRET ALL THESE YEARS??

[pantherj]

My point is this; I don't know what Michie may or may not have done. But, I do know Terry Haggerty is a convicted securities criminal and his "Lifetime Ban" was because he illegally manipulated PFSD stock. That's pretty damning. Why he deserves a bleeping nickel other than whatever the company will pay him for his shares is beyond me. He is a thief.

You and I don't always agree. But, I don't think you have ever done anything illegal or illegally manipulated stock. Do as you wish, you're a pretty smarty guy, but be careful of known "fraudsters" like Haggerty.

[pantherj]

Oh, good grief. you're just trying to drum up business & sympathy for yourself. I suggest we let the courts take care of that, rather than listening to you intentionally smearing whoever's character you decide to assassinate today. Its more than a bit odd that you supposedly knew about all these things for years, yet chose to come forward now in your self-righteous glory.

You're not at all concerned about the "poor" shareholders. Your only concern is yourself and your hatred of Michie. I believe you to be Terry Haggerty ... the man who received a lifetime ban from FINRA for illegal manipulation of PFSD stock. The fate of "the poor shareholders" didn't seem to bother you much then. I am certain their fate is the least of your concerns now. Go ahead, do what you think you have to do. Just give up trying to disguise yourself as a concerned citizen. I believe you to be anything but that. You are NOT a sympathetic figure. You are out for yourself and no one else. If you had an ounce of integrity in you, you would not have engaged in a scheme to defraud the shareholders of PFSD in the first place which resulted in your lifetime ban. You played the game. You lost. Get on with your life and out of ours. You have done quite enough damage to PFSD shareholders already.

[longago]

Terry was a consultant to the BOD for many years and needed the BOD to right this wrong. They ultimately gave Terry the boot when he asked for an annul elections to rid the company of MM and recover these shares.

[ORCA]

{{{{{Michie got a cert for over 15 million shares during that sell off that he holds but didn't pay for,}}}}}SO MICHIE GOT FREE SHARES??
IF TERRY KNEW ABOUT IT,WHY DID HE KEEP IT SECRET ALL THESE YEARS??

[ORCA]

{{{{{Why don't they fire Michie or pay Haggerty to go away???}}}}}HOW MUCH MONEY DOES TERRY WANT TO GO AWAY??

[ttubular]

Forget about your investment in pfsd you will never see any return on investment. Once they took it private it was over for us shareholders.

[longago]

The lawsuit alleges Michie stole money from us shareholders on several occasions.

He also gave us floorless converts that allowed Kramer and his band to drive the prices down to under a penny a share. Michie got a cert for over 15 million shares during that sell off that he holds but didn't pay for, at least according to the legal matter filed on behalf of all of the shareholders.

And they don't tell us anything about any of that except they expect to win.

Now Amazon sales drop buy some huge amount.

Are we going back to the $1 million dollar a year losses like in 2014 and 2015 before Terry got there and began a period of 8 years of profits????

Haggerty filed a response, to a response from PFSD a couple weeks ago. This BOD has now probably spent close to $200K of our money to defend Michie. Why don't they fire Michie or pay Haggerty to go away???

[ORCA]

I HAVE NEVER EVER TALKED TO MichieAND I HAVE NOT TALKED TO ANYONE ELSE FOR ABOUT ONE MONTH.NOW.I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT IS GOING ON.OTHER THAN TERRY IS IN A LAWSUIT WITH PFSD.

[longago]

Hey big guy.

You are a large PFSD holder. Have you heard anything from Michie and the crew about Q1?

I was just told Amazon/EcoOne sales for the first 2 months are down "dramatically". Don't know how much that is or what the reason behind it could be.

[longago]

PFSD filed an 8-K on 5-27-16 to announce Haggerty left the BOD.

Was that an honorable resignation so his FINRA bar would not tarnish the company?

Did that set the limit for the SOL to begin running?

The BOD did add him back to his position on the BOD later and in 2019 made him an employee, CFO, and BOD chairman. Does this mean the BOD saw the results of his bring the company out of a 21 year period without profits as evidence he was not ripping shareholders off?

The current legal claims were brought by Haggerty for allegations of the CEO cooking the books and taking money on multiple occasions.

All said and done I would be happy to have my money being managed by a BOD that did not include Michie and did not include him in any employment status.

[longago]

You have stated my viewpoint with regard to where all the damage came from in your post here #19,220.

You had a silly story about your trooper friend at post #19,194.

I am not asking you to support Terry in an upcoming election. You clearly have so few shares it would not matter.

You might want to consider that this BOD is still breaching their Fiduciary duty to all of us owners by not holding that election. That is the reason this whole sad story moved to the court system. A new BOD will be able to recover the $160K the company used to defend the lawbreakers. You can thank Haggerty when that happens.

[pantherj]

To simply say the SOL is 6 years dodges the operative part of the SOL, which is, a determination of when, legally, the 6 year period begins. There have been frequent determinations that the SOL begins when it became known or when it should have become known. My argument would be that in this particular case, there was no probable way that the victims would have known of the securities violation as it was, in effect, hidden from their attention. I think the courts would agree with that contention.

However, the point I really wish to make is this. I have always played by the rules and absolutely and unequivocally despise those who intentionally do not abide by the rules. Therefor, I am not going to join forces with a known and convicted securities violator, no matter how vociferously he/she tries to clothe themselves and their motives in righteousness. Obviously, they knowingly, callously and strictly for their own benefit, violated my rights before. Only a fool would trust that person again.

Abd, BTW, just who is my trooper friend? lololol

[longago]

Statute of Limitations on security fraud is 6 years for those that lack any legal knowledge or access to the internet.

Maybe ask your trooper friend.

What hurt the shareholders was the issuance of converts with no floor. That is all on Michie. We went from less than 150 million o/s to 393 in a heartbeat because of that.

Many of those converts were exercised at less than par value of $.001 per share.

Michie and Wynhoff never booked an annual profit and suddenly Haggerty shows up and we have nearly 8 years of profitability.

If PS spent 160K on legal Haggerty must have done the same. All out of his pocket and for the benefit of all shareholders.

Let's keep our eye on the ball here.

[pantherj]

Give it up!! Terry was banned for life by FINRA for manipulating the price of PFSD and thus, IMO, costing the shareholders a lot of money. Terry is lucky he hasn't been sued ... yet! One particular interpretation of the SOL indicates a lawsuit is not yet out of the question.

[pantherj]

As usual your entirely self-serving *& twisted view of matters is is simply pathetic. Your business acumen could be put in a thimble and leave plenty of room left over for a bushel apples.

[longago]

Well, Terry seems to have spent $160K too in a lawsuit for the benefit of all shareholders.

Are you ok with the things Michie is accused of in the legal matter???? Taking money from us shareholders???

All I know for sure is the company never made a nickel until Terry got there.

Do you have any positive comments or thoughts on how to fix this mess?

[ORCA]

CONGRATULATIONS TO TERRY AND MICHIE FOR DESTROYING SHAREHOLDER VALUE.THERE GOES ALL THE NET PROFIT FROM THE Q4.

[longago]

Just got my copy of the annual report.

PS spent $160K to defend the actions of a CEO that has been alleged to have stolen money from the company on multiple occasions????

https://biztimes.com/former-cfo-of-kenosha-based-pacific-sands-files-shareholder-lawsuit-against-company-seeks-removal-of-ceo/?bypass=655662532c8b6

[pantherj]

Best wishes to all for the New Year.

[ttubular]

Same to u

[Oxonius]

Another year gone by (almost) and I would like to wish everyone a safe, wonderful holiday season and the best of success in 2024.

[joev2]

People and things will always let us down. I can't tell you how many times I've been ripped off in the market, not to mention the times my own stupidity doing me in. I purchased a couple of products from Pfsd years ago and was extremely satisfied. In the end though, it all doesn't matter as much as we think. It's why I have the following two quotes in my profile. Take care.

"There is salvation in no one else! There is no other name in all of heaven for people to call on to save them." Acts 4:12 (NLT)
Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me." John 14:6

[longago]

I am nearly 80 years old and only own one stock now. Bot my first PFSD in 2008.

I still believe in the EcoOne product line but this CEO and this BOD have ripped the beating heart from my chest.

[joev2]

To be honest, I have not followed this company for years. When Michie took over, I ended up selling my remaining few shares and stopped following it as he was totally silent with shareholders....the opposite of Mick. What I'm basically saying is that Wynhoff was a decent guy. He may not have been the most experienced and capable ceo, but he kept the o/s from getting out of control.
I didn't know anything about Haggerty other than the name was familiar. And this stuff concerning Finra, I just found out about from this board. Stocks I've held over the years, I tend to revisit every so often, as I've done here. Regardless the findings against him, I DO tend to believe his lawsuit against Michie. I guess we'll all find out what's what, eventually.

[longago]

Haggerty is also spending his own money to get shareholders to sign a petition to have a judge force the company to hold an election for new Directors. Nominate and elect who ever you want.

The Nevada law requires an annual election and these Directors have refused to do that. Haggerty asked and demanded for over a year until they got rid of him.

Do you think Michie and those other Directors will go out and find a good deal to sell this company? Do you think a group who chose Michie over Haggerty can understand what a good deal is?

I feel your frustration too.

[ORCA]

LET'S SEE SOME PLANS.FOR SHAREHOLDERS.NO MORE WAITING BS.