Grey Market or Grey Sheet Q & A

[janice shell]

It's a new OTC Markets invention, and not, in my view, a good one. You can see here that they added it in April:

https://www.otcmarkets.com/files/OTC%20Markets%20Promotion%20Data%20Specification%20-%20v1.1.pdf

They've added a definition to their glossary:

The Expert Market is a private market to serve broker-dealer pricing and best execution needs in securities that are restricted from public quoting or trading. Restrictions can be based on issuer requirements, security attributes, investor accreditation and/or suitability risks.

Expert Market

Basically, it's just another way to say "Unsolicited Trades". But they seem to have expanded the category to include quite a few additional issuers. One of the things about it that's unfortunate is that the word "expert" suggests something special and desirable. But being on the Expert Market is neither.

There was a good deal of discussion about it on the DD board a couple of months ago. If you do a keyword search for "expert" on the board, they'll turn up.

[Ecomike]

Here is what I found so far:

Grey Market

There are no market makers in this security. It is not listed,
traded or quoted on any stock exchange, the FINRA BB or
OTC Link. Trades in grey market stocks are reported by
broker-dealers to their Self-Regulatory Organization (SRO)
and the SRO distributes the trade data to market data vendors
and financial websites so investors can track price and
volume. Since grey market securities are not traded or quoted
on an exchange or interdealer quotation system, investor's
bids and offers are not collected in a central spot so market
transparency is diminished and Best Execution of orders is
difficult.


Expert Market

Private market to serve broker-dealer pricing and best
execution needs in securities that are restricted from public
quoting or trading. Restrictions can be based on issuer
requirements, security attributes, investor accreditation and/or
suitability risks.

[Ecomike]

Anyone have any clue, or details on the "Expert Market" versus the Grey Market? Two are listed as Expert Market, at the very bottom.
I found a recent OTC pdf saying it was created in April 2019. The pdf was issued in April this year.

[Ecomike]

Example:

I order 10,000 shares price limit at .0010 but do use an all or none, AON order.

You enter a sell at market or sell at no lower than .0010 for 10,000 or less shares, down to one share, the order fills.

If my buy is all or none, and your sell is less than 10,000 shares it should not fill. Question is, which broker and what types of orders each broker allows on grey sheets. If one broker allows AON orders on greys and another does not, it could be complicated.

With the major brokers having zero commissions fees now, a new day could dawn for grey sheet trades and paint job games

I suspect some brokers grey sheet trades may be done in house, since there are no MMs on the toxic grey sheet stocks.

Just a note, I did some DD a few years back and found some overseas stocks that trade on Greys with huge market caps and huge stock prices with MM bids and asks. I think one was Nestles (Swiss chocolate?) They may or may not have been ADRs.

[Ecomike]

It's a very Gray area for sue. LOL

[Golden Cross]

$DBMM .0028 Ready to run! Filings Complete! Uplisting_Coming

[DrCleopard]

SEHI October 9th lift

[DrCleopard]

SEHI October 9th lift

[StockScout1]

After looking at it the 2nd time.. You are right.. I was looking at the color not the price.. Thanks.

[elbiatcho1]

To me it looks like its grouping the same price for a sequential series of transactions.

[StockScout1]

Can you explain the grey area when using IHUB's Trading Tool?

[iblong2]

Is a Form 10 filing sufficient to getting a stock off the greys?

[CyberCall™]

Hi Everyone!
Wait a minute - I know Janice in here. I remember you Cassie - you called me SCAM years ago....lol.....ME, Patrick J Jensen
https://brokercheck.finra.org/individual/summary/1952963 , you called me a SCAM. Is this a friendly board where a PRESIDENT of a GREY SHEET COMPANY that has an SEC ACCENSSION #, and is an ACTIVE FILER WITH EDGAR as of June 12, 2018! I am just a good person, trying to re-activate a grey sheet company. I control the company - so you got beef with da company, you come knock on my door at 4:00am EST - right Sterling! Is this a board where a Company President can come looking for good information on how to become the 4th or 5th company EVER IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND TO COME BACK!!!! In all these years, I have never issued 1 single share that has ever made it to a public hand. NEVER. Won't do it, not yet.....because I am in early GROWTH MODE.

What do you guys think about my silly idea to BUY BACK MY OLD WEBSITE that I first started in 2012:

http://www.access-power.com - will you help me, please BUY BACK MY OLD WEBSITE BACK? You see, there is nothing scammy or illegal or wrong with wanting to buy back your website that you first created in 2012, is there?

Now, I am not predicting anything, , those who know me, know that Patrick J Jensen is calm, level headed, and very sane and loving. God did something for me the other day, and that I KNOW!

[LongTimeObserver]

So, how does one facilitate a trade in a grey sheet security?

Fidelity portfolio displays a five-digit number with no pricing.

TIA

[ulikefakenews]

Help on order fills in grey market situations with larger quantities of shares.

Was curious if you can have partial fill orders on grey orders or it must be perfect in every respect from price, to total amount of shares listed to fill.

So if I list 500k shares at 5 cents and 250k shares sell and nothing all day, and then I still have my remaining 250k shares and I list them at 3 cents and someone buys 100k. Will it work like a normal stock, or must it be a 1 for 1 so if buyer wants 100k shares at 5 cents and I have 200k shares at 5 cents it wouldn't fill.

Thanks for any advice this would help our board a great deal, and also expand my knowledge a bit as I've never dealt with greys and larger quantities only really tiny positions.

[jokerwild477]

is there a place to get quotes on gray sheets stocks...or see the bid ask...thanks ,,,JOKER

[greekgal72]

Feecq is a grey sheet no bid no ask yet still trades in a range of trip 1 to double 1 there is only 300 mil shares o/s..my broker today when i called the sec revoked there registration..its said it dont mean its a bad thing yet...he told me you will just have to wait it out and see on my st acct it shows feecq#.I dont get it i cant trade it on ST yet on fri 2/3/17 he told me someone sold 300k shares @.0001 and someone bought 20k shares @.001..today 2/7 he told me the sec revooked there regerstration from the grey sheet market.

[Felm]

New here, quick question. What are the options to go about trading in the Grey Market? Let's just say I want to liquidate a stock that was halted and ended up there. I'm aware there's no easy way about this, but would like to know some options.

Thanks

[DJknows]

hmmmmm

[rbtree]

GPLS did file a 15-12G to deregister.... but then nothing. If there's now a bid/ask, it may just be a mistake. who knows why the stock is up.... the company appears to have flown the coup.

[Renee]

Yes, I wrote a post about SDRG (without naming the stock symbol) on the KMAG board. The post was about one company, SDRG, doing everything right to regain Market Maker representation and one company atypically doing everything wrong, KMAG.

I'll look into GPLS.

The post:

http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=114149264

When the SEC suspended KMAG and 15 other stocks on Sept. 17,2012 two stocks defied the atypical consequences of the suspension.

One stock continued business operations where ALL investors could access the company, the CEO, and could verify news releases and all documented filings to the SEC. That company provided all requests for information to the SEC to defend itself against the SEC's "questions about adequacy and accuracy of information, including their assets, business operations, current financial condition and/or issuances of shares in company stock." That company convinced the SEC that they were legitimate and viable and a few months ago FINRA approved the company obtaining a Market Maker to sponsor the stock.

THAT is how a legitimate company survives an SEC Suspension, by demonstrating verifiable EVERYTHING.

http://www.sec.gov/litigation/suspensions/2012/34-67868.pdf

The other stock that has defied the atypical consequences of an SEC Suspension is KMAG. In contrast to the one stock that verified EVERYTHING to regain Market Maker quotations KMAG has not verified ANYTHING but has continued trading on the Grey Market on CULT worship of REID and outrageously false and misleading rumors perpetrated by Reid and enabled by his cult followers.

It is devastating when shareholders are defrauded by a company whose stock was suspended by the SEC, but it is equally criminal when shareholders are defrauded for years after the suspension by cult leaders who have embellished FALSE information and FALSE rumors to sell their shares at very high prices to other cult followers.

KMA Global Solutions disappeared off the face of the earth immediately after the SEC Suspension. Had there been any business operations the SEC Suspension of the stock would not have interfered with company operations whatsoever. Legitimate companies DO NOT DISAPPEAR!!!!!!!!!

For Reid and his cult members to pound the table for 2 1/2 years AFTER the SEC Suspension that KMA Global is a thriving business in order to support the stock is just as criminal and fraudulent as when KMA Global defrauded investors BEFORE the SEC Suspension.

Once again, legitimate companies DO NOT DISAPPEAR when their stock is suspended by the SEC.

[rbtree]

Hi Renee. I just saw a post on the KMAG board. Two of the other stocks suspended back in Sep 2012 have changed. SDRG is actually QB now....

GPLS shows as if it is no longer grey, but there's no news about it.... the stock has moved in the last few months.....There have been no filings either at OTC Markets or with the SEC, and no news or posts on the message board.....

[Renee]

Hi, afxm. Even though your account shows CNEX worth $70, or .0001, there has not been any trades since the SEC Suspension so possibly a bean counter at your Brokerage simply gave CNEX a nominal value of the last posted PPS of .0001. Had the last posted PPS been .00001 your account would show $7.

Technically CNEX is worth zero because it has not traded since Feb. 2015.

[afxm]

Hi Renee, remember me, use to mod the fanniemae board.
CNEX, a grey sheet stock that I happened to own 700k shares when it went under. its still in my account and shows to be worth $70 now after being zero for years. I wonder what's up with that, any idea ?

[Cassandra]

The only way for a formerly-suspended grey market stock to resume being quoted via OTC Pink Link is to regain Rule 15c2-11 qualification which requires a FINRA-approved Form 211. If a company is fully-reporting and current with its SEC filings, qualification with Rule 15c2-11 will allow its stock to resume being quoted via OTCQB.

http://www.finra.org/Industry/Compliance/MarketTransparency/OTCBB/Forms/

Rule 15c2-11 allows market makers to make a market in a stock and quote their own bid and ask prices. A company can't file a Form 211 with FINRA. A market maker must essentially sponsor a company by filing the form, which requires extensive financial and company information.

Form 211: http://www.otcbb.com/aboutotcbb/forms/form211.pdf

In the last several years only a couple of companies have regained Rule 15c2-11 qualification. EDVP is one example.

http://promotionstocksecrets.com/edvp-becomes-the-first-suspended-ticker-to-return-from-the-grey-sheets-in-over-3-years/

[Bernie-UK]

I'm sure this has been asked many times but does any stock that has been suspended and put on the grey market ever make it back to the Pinks? e.g. if they fulfil all of the SEC demands and requirements and solve for any discrepancies and are in good stead again?

[Renee]

Market capitalization is the subjective value investors place on the price per share (PPS) multiplied by the number of outstanding shares. So, as an example, a $1.00 PPS multiplied by 100 million shares gives a market cap of $100 million. As the PPS fluctuates so too does the market cap and the current owner of shares benefits or loses depending on the value of shares.

Market Cap is different than asset capitalization of the company which is based on asset values minus liabilities.

After an SEC Suspension the market cap drops significantly and each shareholder's money value for their shares decreases.

With the example of $1.00 a share before an SEC Suspension the seller at $1.00 keeps the locked in $1.00 per share. The buyer of the $1.00 per share then loses value after an SEC Suspension. So, the new value of EXAMPLE 10 cents means the 90 cents loss was vaporized. No-one gets the 90 cents as it is simply a loss of value and the new market capitalization is $10 million. The $90 million loss of market cap simply vaporized.

Much like buying a new car for $30,000 and after driving the car off the lot the car is instantly worth less because it is now a used car; or buying a house and the house price drops after purchase for whatever reasons. The losses are borne by the owner of the now used car or the house. No other person or entity benefits from the loss on the car or the house....the values are simply less to the current owner.

[bigmoneytrader]

How about this answer. The ask and the Bids are pulled and by magic the price plummets down down down. And someone shorted this turkey! :) That is closer to the truth....

[Silver_hawk4]

The price drop is mainly because our the dramatic drop in demand... More people trying to get out of the stock and the skepticism of new investors to buy(because of the move to GreySheets). It's like buying a tractor trailer full of oranges ant then the FDA puts out a warning on oranges... You'd have to sell them at a much lower price to get rid of them... And to directly answer your question, the "Extra" cash are in the pockets of those lucky enough to have exited the position(Sell their shares) before the adverse actions took place...

[MorningLightMountain]

NEWL:

http://ih.advfn.com/p.php?pid=nmona&article=62939323

[EODparty7]

I ended up putting a sell in with my broker over the phone but lost like 95% of my investment.. I'm sorry I wish I had a better answe for you .. Feel ur pain.. Grey markets are terrible ..

[bullvsbearallday]

I am in a similar situation with your experience last year. I would appreciate how this was resolved. 3k in gray as space

[elbiatcho1]

Market Cap is simply price per share multiplied by the number of outstanding shares, so yes there is a huge loss in the market cap after a SEC suspension.

Where does the money go to? Goes to whomever sells their shares.
The threat of having stock go to grey market (if it hasn't already after suspension) is worrisome for investors, so they usually sell asap. Trading stock on grey sheets is extremely difficult and illiquid.

Is this how the SEC gets paid?

Are you looking for a conspiracy theory?

[Davidbike]

I noticed that after the SEC suspends a stock there is a 60 to 80% loss in price per share. My question is there a loss in the market cap? If so where did the money go to? Does the government seize it? Is this how the SEC gets paid?

[brawnycha]

You can submit an order yourself. Just if your willing to sell or buy you enter a price , qty based on the last few trades.

[FedUpToHere]

There are no quotes on the greys. You'll see the last buy/sell price, but no actual or current bid/ask. If you're determined to trade a grey, call into your broker and have him/her assist you.

[dealerschool2006]

so where can I see quotes...I saw one a few months ago for a no bid stock, but it's real BID was .00009

[Cassandra]

Brokers (market makers) are allowed to provide unsolicited buy or ask quotes on grey market stocks but may not "make a market" in the stock by providing unsolicited quotes.

[dealerschool2006]

what brokers give gray market quotes??? I'm in ATYG @ no bid but I once saw a quote of .00009 x .0001 ....

[Cassandra]

It appears you are referring to STRXF, which trades on a foreign exchange (TSX) as well as OTC in the US. It may have become a grey market stock if it went for over four trading days without being quoted on an unsolicited basis by a market maker. The company may need to have a market maker file a new Form 211 with FIRNA in order to resume MM quotations if it so desires.

This forum is primarily for questions and answers about stocks that end up on the grey market after being suspended by the SEC. However there is a forum specifically to discuss trading grey market stocks, especially those traded on foreign exchanges, that you may find helpful:

http://investorshub.advfn.com/Greysheet-Trading-Forum-GREYSHEETS-15032/

[buyback]

Went from PINK to (GM)? I started a board for it but I do not know what the significance of trading Grey Market is? Can someone explain this to me?

[Cassandra]

New readers of this forum would learn the most by starting from the beginning and reading all posts forward.

To start from the beginning use this post:

http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=79969088

If you have a decent Internet connection, scrolling through these posts should not take much time.

[EODparty7]

So im stuck im pwei and have no experience trading in the grey market, Can anybody give me any real advice on how i should get rid of these shares? I have scottrade and i think i have to call in my trade to a broker. I already have accepted im going to take a huge loss but my concern is, it takes forever to talk to an actual broker on the phone so if I put my shares for sale too high i might get screwed when the pps plummets as it usually does when APS starts dumping.. Should I like stay on the phone with the broker and try to get a decent exit or just dump it at the bell , and any advice on pps to sell at? Thanks in advance

[Cassandra]

SEC suspensions are for 10 trading days. When the suspension ends, the stock can be traded on the grey market but market makers are prohibited from publishing quotes (bids and asks). Shares can only be sold if there is a matching buy order (or combination of orders) at the same price and size.

Most suspended stocks trade very little if at all following a suspension. A few wildly popular cult stocks may continue to trade, but on much lower volume and prices. There are true believers who will buy the stock thinking it will all work out. Eventually even virtually all of those cease trading altogether as well.

If you share the ticker symbol, people will be able to give you more information about your particular stock.

If you can't sell them, your broker might be willing to do a worthless securities transaction in which the brokerage buys all of your shares for a penny total.

Since there are so few posts on this forum, you might want to read all of them, starting from post 1: http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=79969088

You might also want to see if there is a discussion forum for your stock on iHub as there may be others discussing the situation. Just enter the ticker in the "Search iHub" box and hit the magnifying glass. As a non-premium member you can still locate a stock board that way.

If you do a Google search for "worthless securities." you will find a lot of information including how to treat the loss for income tax purposes.

Here's one article: http://www.bankrate.com/finance/money-guides/writing-off-a-worthless-stock.aspx

[sidedraft]

Without the ticker being mentioned there can't be much incite offered.

[briwri01]

Hi. Just joined and trying to figure out what my options are. I bought a few shares of stock a week or two ago, and shortly after the SEC suspended trading and now I see that the stock is listed as "Grey Market" and not traded in my brokerage account. What do I do with it! Do I just write it off as a loss, or is there a way to sell my shares and be rid of them? I guess I'm a trusting citizen who thought if a company was allowed to go public and sell shares that I would be able to buy and sell, but I've learned a valuable lesson here. Just need to know what to do with the few shares I have!

Thanks so much,

Brian

[BigBake1]

Not enough, need a new record suspension of 600+ shells to send a clearer message. FINRA needs to get off their butts and start deleting the garbage lingering on the Greys too...

[Cassandra]

Ticker links to the 61 SEC suspensions today:
AMUC, CRNY, CPTI, DVNO, EGHDQ, ECAM, EMOC, FTMK, GLOV, ISDN, IFBV, INAX, IDMV, IBIE, IBDI, ISYI, MBAY, MCOMQ, MHGI, MNEM, MYRA, PABN, POPM, PPTL, RTWW, RCTY, RKTI, SCPT, SHSO, SPTS, SVSE, SVXA, TCCC, TMTP, VERD, VKPW, WTRO,

No I-Hub Boards: AUFR, BCPO, BAXF, CBRAF, CPOB, EGBS, EVFB, FFIRD, FKLN, GNVN, IOMT, MPAL, OXFO, PAWH, PGOI, PPJN, RLXI, RNCP, TIGC, UNMG, VIPPS, VITK, WLIA, ZMNL:

SEC Suspension: http://www.sec.gov/litigation/suspensions/2013/34-69678.pdf

ORDER: http://www.sec.gov/litigation/suspensions/2013/34-69678-o.pdf

http://www.securitieslawyer101.com/sec-suspends-trading-of-61-companies/

[Crazy Money]

I call B.S. on that Myth

2. All Grey sheet trading is moderated by a broker and done between consenting individuals at a price they agree on.

unless people are talkin' about the brokers

[MorningLightMountain]

OK, let me list the Longwei series of events, as I understand them:

on Jan 3, 2013, a report is put out by GeoInvesting accusing LPH of blatant fraud (basically, they say it's a hollow business).....this is after a nice run in the stock price.....

after a huge drop, the Co never trades again under the symbol LPH....This was due to a T2 Halt.....the Co says they intend to "vigorously defend itself", and I assume the T2 halt was done at the Co request....it's a "pending information" halt.....

March 11, months later: Longwei reports

a Notice of Delisting from the NYSE MKT (the "Exchange") that its securities are subject to being delisted from the Exchange for failure to comply with Sections 132(e), 134, 801(h), 803(B)(2)(c), 803(B)(4), 1101, 1003(d) and 1003(f)(iii) of the NYSE MKT Company Guide (the "Company Guide").

they also say they will continue to defend themselves!!!! (despite never filing a 10-Q, just the NT in February)

Today: The Co starts trading again on the Grey Sheets as LPIH

so.....in the end, it was the Co's "clamming up" that got them put on the Greys.....yes, they did not "voluntarily delist" technically, but they kind of forced the issue by keeping the stock frozen with a T2, and not filing their 10-Q.....

anyway, another China Scam bites the dust, it seems......