If you find a symbol of value why on earth would you take a loss only too move on with less
money only too take a loss if that symbol doesn't move quickly enough either?
We've held stocks over a year to make a profit.
This is not gambling. This is not Vegas
Millionaires are not made overnight!
If you have the idea everything traded on iHub is a POS...
You've already lost the battle; please move on~
Remember the definition of insanity?
Doing the same thing over and over thinking you'll get different results!!!
If your Due Diligence or [virtue of hard work rather than the sin of careless] doesn't suggest you hold it until profits are available? Why are you trading/investing? STUPID!!!
Here at the Pro Traders Forum each MOD does his/her on thing.
This is what I do... SuperC in this order>>> I have a number of different trading/investtment strategies I've learned over the course of 19-years.... That is Different Foruma's!
One of Many
Find symbols that have not been played too death here on iHub
Find companies with unique intellectual property / patents / very interesting business models
Why I like this
So in a NUTSHELL I prefer unique bottom plays, unique biz-models, companies with patents, companies not played too death and give you enough researched information so that YOU can make an informed decision after YOU further due diligence said company.
NOTE: You will see on a regular bases our STICKY NOTES posted with NEW SYMBOLS>>>>>
I like for frequent visitors too research new plays, just like myself even though YOU / I may not be playing said SYMBOL
Not everything you see in our Sticky Notes is being played....
Do not buy based on someone else buying or our notes... without further DD!
This is NOT a Promotion Station
STICKY NOTES are ALERTS_ONLY with DD!
This is one Formula I use here, ONE of Many:
At this forum you'll find:
Short & Long Term Picks
YOU NEED: Chart_Data + Stock_Data + iHub_Data = Buy?
A few important notes before you get started:
For those interested in searching Pro Traders Forum in reference to 10Day Alerts, you can use the link below if your a paid subscriber. If your not a subscriber it's well worth what on average will only cost you about $ 0.75cents a day. Subscription link is listed at end of the ibox.
** You CANNOT be a successful investor without utilizing a Chart, iHub_Data plus Stock_Data. Our 1st choice is a 10Day Volume Alert **
Your premium subscription to Investors Hub renewed yesterday. Thank you for your premium subscription! The amount was $12.99
If you can't afford this you can't afford too trade!
Explaining a few basics of the 10Day Alert System with recent RUN: http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=68926148
We also try and not post anyting with an extreme float either way. The best floats for trading are between 10 million to 50 million.
10Day Volume Alerts Speak of: Unusual Trading Patterns But Very Little %Gains [A good thing ]
Since there are thousands of OTCBB stocks bought and sold each day, one of the features here is to look for unique PICKS ! Symbols, which haven't been played over and over again, and with the right tools show the possibility of being more than just a day trade.
We will be using a set formula, one in which has proven to be effective. It is a step-by-step process adding quick DD tools too effectively make a decision on whether or not to buy. Even if you decide not to buy, the values set with these tools WILL help you to become a better trader.
As you read through the ibox remember this FORMULA:
10Day Average Volume with 7 to10x disparity + Stock_Data + Ihub_Data = Should I Buy?
BEFORE the stock moves NOT AFTER A RUN
10Day Volume Average Search: http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/msgsearch.aspx?searchstr=10dayavg http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/msgsearch.aspx?searchstr=10day
As you can see from my years here on iHub [look for the 10day-vol-avg posts] http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/Profile.aspx?user=52013 this is one of the three values I use in making a timely decision. Too be able to trade effectively one needs a starting point or set of tools. Then after you've mastered these set of tools AS A WHOLE, variables that lie inside the boundaries of each are dictated by [what's assembled inside you as an individual person]
I can't state this enough.... as you read all parts of the ibox, the 10Day Alert 'rule' is TRULY a very simple tool, one in which you can use when you find new symbols, when you desire to further your DD on Long Term Picks, Short Term Picks, when you find new and FRESH Plays, that HAVE NOT been played to death here on iHub.
The 10Day Alert allows you:
1.) Find new plays fresh to iHub [this along has tremendous value since the new play has VOLUME!
2.) See patterns in front loading by individuals [ususally a single entity] someone know's something
3.) Helps to create value in your next Long Term Play and Short Term Play
4.) Helps you to initially decide whether or not to further.... your DD!
5.) For those who have yet to become Chartist, this very simple 10Day Alert rule helps too further your charting environment
6.) Helps you too understand the value-of-VOLUME 'changes'.
Why I did this:
* I like anyone else am here to make money, but I'm also here to help those I see daily... chase!
* Who are totally new too this.
* Who are willing to take the time to see the value in this very simple system, which of course you'll see..... leads to many UNIQUE formula's you'll create on your own.
It's like someone telling you HOW to plant something in the ground for the very first time. You need a shovel. You need a Plant. You need Water. But then after you've learned the basics, [don't think you'll master it quickly - it's taken me years] it's then up to you where to plant, and what to plant.
Everyone on IHUB who you think is a good trader has a niche. But also those who have a niche no doubt ran through many trial and error periods, experimenting, then setting in on a formula that works for them.
That's where a majority of you reading this may need to expand on what you're doing here on iHub... because too become a better trader no matter what your buying or selling patters are; you'll always need a Chart, Stock Data, and iHub Data.
How 10 Day Averages Work:
Moving averages are very simple, yet extremely useful tools for investors. A moving average is simply the average of a series of numbers over a period of time which is constantly updated by dropping the oldest value and then adding the newest value and recalculating the average. So a 10-day moving average of stock prices would add up the closing prices for the last 10 days and then divide that total by 10. After the next trading day, we would drop the oldest day and calculate the average with the latest days' price in its place. So over time the average moves as new data is added and old data is dropped.
Here's a free link to view a 10Day Volume Chart: http://www.profitspi.com/stock-quote/ebdc.aspx under the last section "price & performance" at the bottom right you'll see 5day 10day and more averages. We are after the 10day volume here.
**** We also trade at the PRO Forum just like other boards on news, rumors, and basic DD. What we try and do on top of this is specialize in a set of quick DD tools.
Ultimately... the tools needed to HELP find your own picks!
Remember the formula: 10day avg vol with a 7x to 10x resembling a post like this:
BGTH .008 125k vs 12k volume 10day average
When YOU spot it [always on the LEFT] verses Last 9 Days [always on the RIGHT]
The larger volume will always be on the LEFT [showing a huge shift]
Another recent example: http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=62247622
The above symbol was spotted in real-time within two different time periods in 2010 here on iHub. Once early in the year, and once late in the year.
Why does that matter? Well it DOESN'T matter that I was first, what matters is finding it before it runs, right? In early 2010 when spotted there was very little 10Day_Moving_Volume 'change'. But late in the year? On one day there was 125k volume verses 12k volume, that's a 10x volume-change. K = 1000
One of my recent posts on Jan 7th was this: BKSD .003 800k vs 105k_vol10dayavg that's an 8x volume change over that particular 10 day period.
***** Go back and notice the changes, which occurred on the 3 pages listed; what do you see? Well above average buying before a run
Now, we do not care how or why it runs, this is not ours to figure out. What matters is being able to spot a huge change in volume before it occurs and ABSOLUTELY... before it makes a major move. Your going to find there are variables in the above, but this is the fun part, so be ready!
Other Important Steps:
We are going to describe the values in using a real-time activities bar, that is a menu which shows symbols changing quickly as trades happen in real-time. New symbols come and go, old symbols come around more often. Simply said it's a way to get to know the majority of stocks, which trade OTC_BB.
EACH post you find here [when making a 1st for that particular symbol] will have DD. When you spot a re: at the start of a post, that is there to show you it's linked to the last post or hopefully, linked to the 1st 10day_vol alert if applicable. You may also see then linked to several posts leading back to the 1st post with the most DD. http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=58553388
One of the posts leading back to the one you'll see will have this:
- 10dayavg vol 'changes'
- 52wk hi/low
- A/S O/S Float
- Possible ihub comments
- Other DD tid_bits from IHUB
It is our goal to provide more than just a Day Trading *hit & run* at the PRO_TRADERS Forum
Always remember finding a stock you like needs more than just a volume change as you continue to read, it needs:
10Day Volume + stock_data + iHub_data = buy ? If you remember this formula, you'll do well!!
We've briefly discussed what to expect, and what posts will look like when we give alerts. Now let's discuss the intricacies of the 10dayavg_vol DD tools.
Isn't it true at least from a risk factor [however you perceive risk] that the higher PPS, the less risk you have? Simply said if you buy a stock at .05c and buy a stock at .0005, which has the higher risk value? The point is here on this particular forum we are lowering the factors of risk, and in part, by staying away from micro-picks .0001 to .0009's [there are Pros on Ihub ___ go find them]
Ihub offers many research tools that are helpful if used correctly and in the sequence I show you. This should bring your confidence level up considerably!
This is a process that takes time, lots of time over an extended period.
My suggestion is to run this strategy on paper.
If you've ever watched a roulette wheel go round and round the analysis here fits. Imagine if you will a very large roulette wheel with 2500 letters instead of numbers in front of you ever-changing, [spinning ~ spinning ~ spinning]! You'll notice 90% of those letters keep coming up day after day, week after week, and month after month.
Notice the Activities Bar:
OTCBB __________ SHARES TRADED ___________ 1 Min
SYMBOL ___________ %EXE ___________ SHARES
The above image is from Ameritrade Command Center. It is set up on Shares-Traded instead of Number of Shares [per minute /5min/ 30min/ etc.
What you want is the  Minute allowing you quick access to individual trades and not a set of trades from one stock. You want it the flash quickly as not to miss an opportunity. What opportunity? Answer: The symbols, which are not played over and over again on Ihub. There's a very good reason for this so continue >>>>
Question: Do you think you would step up to a roulette wheel in Vegas without looking at what was in front of you before putting your money down?
Something to think about : If I buy a stock today I see on Ihub, can I then come back within a few days or week and watch it grow? Or, do I need to buy and sell within a very short period of time? My answer is: Over 80% of stocks bought and sold here on IHUB are Day Trades or Very Short Trade.
If you would have asked me that back in the early 90's when I bought my 1st computer, an Acer 60 scream'n megahertz Computer for $2,300 dollars, and an online baud rate of 33k when I was first on Prodigy trading; I would have said NO! Things have changed and continue to evolve!
In general, here are a few things we look for at the Pro Traders Forum before getting into the step by step process of DD.
- Stocks that are and have remained above .001 for an extended period of time
- Stocks that are very close to their 52wk low with a nice range back to their 52wk high
- Stocks too that may be very close to their 52wk high and are moving in that direction based on further DD
- Stocks that are showing 7x to 10x 10 Day Average Moving [but have yet to make a serious move]
- Stocks that have a float, but on average no lower than 5 mil to approx. 100mil. [this could vary due to a current situations]
- Stocks that have not been played to death on Ihub [see link to 'public message search'
- Stocks that show signs of change [Shells / RM / or something unique]
- Stocks that when researched through 'public Ihub messges' include # 7, showing a uniqueness [you'll learn this]
- Stocks that when first spotted on an L2 screen have NOT dropped in pps for that day [if so move onto the next]
- Stocks that when first spotted on an L2 screen have not moved up significantly [we do not chase]
- Stocks yet discovered [this includes a wide range of data] again, to include knowing what's out there spinning on a daily /weekly/month basis
NOTE: If you decide to buy something on PDT's, this is your DECISION and yours alone. If you decide to work within this system or any other system, you'll need to be in front of your computer most of the time when the market is open. You cannot do well otherwise Fact, not Fiction!
~ All Steps Listed Below Have The Same Values ~ All Steps Are Important ~
Remember the Spinning Wheel Analysis
Lets look at this one more time:
Notice: OTC_BB ------ Shares Traded ----- Per_Minute [SCREEN]
A very important piece to this system is monitoring symbols IN REAL_TIME <as they trade!>
With this particular WINDOW, which is part of Ameritrade Command_Center, you can CLICK on the Shares_Traded, and use TRADES.
Two choices, Trades, or Shares_Traded. You want to use Shares-Traded and by the minute.
Note: There are other here using different platforms, but you must be able to monitor OTC_BB in real time!
Each trading platform has unique advantages, look for them
I say this knowing what other real-time activity bar online systems bring up verses what Ameritrade brings up. There is a difference. For example when you 'public message search' http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/msgsearch.aspx?SearchStr=bgth back and you'll see I had the 1st post.
**** Sometimes certain symbols do not come up, or do not come up as quickly on different trading platforms ****
Here's what happened during 2010 in regards to BGTH:
What matters is finding it before it makes it's initial run, thus not having to hold it for an extended period of time!
It's the 10 Day Avg_vol change, which in this case was 125k vs 12k volume or 10x that set an inner alarm off + symbol_data + ihub_data
This system does not mean you catch everything before it moves, nor is it set up to sometimes see it first. But what happens over the course of learning this system, and most of all... you get to know what NOT TO PLAY [you make that decision over a period of time], in order to understand what MIGHT BE A GOOD PLAY. Find picks yourself, find picks that have yet to move by: 10dayavg_vol + stock_data + ihub_data = Buy?
1.) 10Day Average Volume: Ameritrade Image>>> If you look closely at the bottom left you'll see a time of 2:31 ET 1/13/11.. just above that you'll see Avg Vol (10day) it doesn't matter what it say's here, this is where you find in on Ameritrade Command Center. Within the same page check out all the other DD, which is important when trying to find the Share_Outstanding, 52wk hi/low, and of course the chart. When you double click the chart, it brings up values as you scroll down, which are also useful. Accumulation/Distribution, etc. These are excellent quick reference pages...
2.) Stock Data: The above reference is only part of your stock-data, there are others. Ihub provides a search tool for paid subscribers, which is something you absolutely need! Here is a link to find out what ihubbers are saying about TDCP http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/msgsearch.aspx?SearchStr=tdcp and have now for over 12 pages since the first of 2011. You get trememdous value for less than $.50c a month, this is just one of them.
3.) iHub Data This is also referenced by using many link as above, by dropping the last 4 digits and putting in the stock you want to research. iHub Data as you scan a stock symbol comes in many flavors, meaning, you need time to decipher which is false, what is DD that someone else has posted, and many other factors. Take time to understand what's being said as you scan down each post. You do not need to open these posts, just glean the first few lines, there's plenty there! Over time you'll begin to realize that by assembling what's being written, based on news, rumors, who's saying it, when it's being said... things start to take shape. Easy Does It
Recent 10 Day Movers:
LHPT 1st IHUB Call for 2011
* BGBV.0061 415k vs 15k_vol10dyavg to .04cents [2 weeks idle before moving, which is the norm]
* OHAQ.0004 109k vs 0k_vol10dayavg to [.10c 33,223% gain]
ihub 1st http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=60109774
* TGLO.0015 1.1mil vs 29k_vol10dayavg [.006]
* TRTH.016 350k vs 27k_vol10dayavg [.054c]
* TWOS .002 250k vs 10k_vol10dayavg
* LHPT .0011 Signals_UP [.008] 1st mover that day
* EGOH .025 Signals_UP [.20c] one of the 1st movers
* BGTH .008 125k vs 12k_vol 10dayavg [.034] 1st to spot
* DMGM .002 510k vs 0 k volume 10dayavg [.21c] 1st to spot
* TMSH .005's 220k vs 0k vol 10dayavg [.75c] 1st to spot
* SFOR .0075 Signals_UP .079 HOD 1st to spot
Many more to numerous too mention: Day Trades _ Short-Term Trades _ Long Term Plays
Do you notice anything significant about the above numbers? When you see it [always on the LEFT] verses Last 9 Days [always on the RIGHT]
Most of the really good runs have very little if any volume in the past 10days... But just as important, you can't conclude you have the best possible evidence of a new and fresh play unless you include Stock_Data + IHub_Data
If you spot a huge 10day disparity, and if it doesn't move that day, log it. If you buy? HOLD IT if it doesn't move!!
The first thing I learned to do is to be able to type in all the ticker symbols running in real time as mentioned so you get to know what's being played on a daily bases...
Type, write them down, write down each ticker you see on ihub. Log those you don't see on a regular bases.
Get to know a little about the symbols that pop up. You don't need to know the float or even the companies name, know how they trade, and know how many shares are traded per sale. If you don't play micro's, that is .0001 to .0009 you know which stocks to stay away from.
Using the Per_Minute Bar will help you to do that.
Within Ameritrade https://wwws.ameritrade.com/cgi-bin/apps/Main at the bottom of this main page, when your command center is up and running you'll find a place for QUOTES. Insert symbol then the bid/ask come up, then you can click on the symbol linking you quickly to the next and most important page.
This page is the only page you'll need in your Ameritrade account: http://www.tdameritrade.com/tradingtools/commandcenter.html
What your looking for:
52wk Range .0005 to .07
Let's say you've spotted a symbol, then when finding the above information on that day the volume was 250k but has yet to make a serious move.
Let's say you spotted it at .0012 it was .001 when spotted. You know the 10dayavg volume change is: 250k vs 25k_vol 10dayavg. that is 10x the 10day.
The chart is also available on that page:
At this time you do not need any other information to get to the next step.
Going BACK So let's say you've spent a considerable amount of time getting to know at least in brief, most of the OTCBB ticker symbols that come up on a regular basis. You watch the Real-Time Per-Minute Shares-Traded Window, you see on ihub everybody's playing the same thing. You sit there for what seems hours watching in real-time, the same roulette wheel then Whamo! You spot something new, or what seems to be new, it may happen several times within a 5 minute period, it may happen but once an hour.
Command Center: I have 1 web-page opened within 9 tabs. Within those 9 tabs is my Command Center: TABS = Fast Day Trading DD!
http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/board.aspx?board_id=18631 Pro Traders Forum
http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/msgsearch.aspx?SearchStr=dnad [back click on URL and trade out the last for within seconds each time you search]
http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/board.aspx?board_id=15223 [Public Float Updates]
Many more links listed below...
Having Quick Tab References Saves Time & Money
I have 1 OCTBB Activities Bar
I have 2 Last_Sale Windows [drop the chart attached - no need]
I have 3 Level II Windows
These are spread out so that I don't have each L2 next to each other, easier to locate.
Between Tabs and Command Center, and Strategy Desk,
I'm clicking back & forth watching the Activities Bar / L2 - Last Sale - 9 tab references every few seconds..... tick tick tick ~ click click click
Once I spot something I want to research I immediately go to my L2 and see how it's trading.
* Is it at it's high for the day? ~ is it so high I'll just be catching a momo play?
* Is it too high to trade at this time?
* How are the Market Makers lined up [how many on each side]? I do not trade with more than 4 MM's on each side [case by case basis]
* Does it look green [the start of what could be Signals_UP, I repeat what could be ? [a lot more data is involved as it adds up] stock_data + ihub_data to make a SIGNALS_UP Call.
Then if it meets my criteria of, * yet to move * looks interesting * may be a new play *hasn't dropped even one .0001 point... I move that symbol from my L2 to my Last_Sale Screen. I want to know how fast it's moving, are there sales large, etc. Does it look like a quick momo play ready to begin, or, possible a new symbol whereas someone could be loading? You'll figure all this out in time, just be patient.
If I see that it's not moving too fast, it hasn't dropped, it hasn't moved up to much on the Price Per Share 'pps', I'll then take the time to scan iHub.
What do I look for?
- How many pages if a run is proceeding at the moment [ one page now? / 3 months since last run] [not even listed] [your thinking?]
- Scan post headers only saving time
- Key words [news / reverse merger / shell / or ? ]
- Get to know those that go around and hype every board possible [this takes time ~ your first impressions may be wrong]
- When was the last run on this stock? Has it been several months?
- There are many more reasons you'll discover by having this feature, pay for it, ihub's services are more than worth an average of $16.00 dollars a month, you'll find it saves you not only time but money $$$
During the entire process so far I'm always going back to my L2 & Last_Sale to see how it's moving.
Always move back and forth quickly between watching your L2 & Last_Sale while DD for that pick continues.
You'll find yourself moving from iHub DD, then back to your L2, always switching back and forth scanning quickly to see how it's moving while you scan for other important data.
Always, and I mean always click back and see if there's a new symbol coming up [they refresh about every 10sec's] while your DD.
KEY: If I don't like what I read on my L2, after I first spot a pick, I halt and move on. If I don't like what the L2 is telling me I move on, no need for the next step. If it's already gone up, it it's dropped, if it's being played too much, if the float is to high or two low, if news out is unimportant I MOVE ON!
Remember the roulette wheel, also remember if you will... there's another another bus within the route of each day!
You and only you can build this data.....!!!
Now, I've found the pick I like, it hasn't been played much if at all, it has value, it's close to it's 52wk low, the 10dayavg_vol is great, float is good, nothing real negative at this time on ihub, I've checked the latest float board: http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/board.aspx?board_id=15223 I then move it from my 1st L2 to my 2nd L2 for further analysis 'watch it' unless I feel there's enough information to buy.
I'm always continuing to shift from left to right moving possible plays in and out, thus when I lose interest after reviewing all data into a storage bank. I use Strategy Desk from Ameritrade. It allows you the simplicity, [see one of my ProTrader images], to watch percentage gainers automatically IF the PPS moves up.
Always BUY before you POST if your going to buy!
Remember what CD's are paying now, 2% at the most! If you make 20% or better, hmmm NICE!
Remember that as soon as you buy, set a price to sell immediately! Don't think about it!!!
Buy: LHPT.002 200k $400.00
Sell: Lhpt.0045 200k $900.00
Putting your price in helps others to maintain a run, you'll always be selling at the ASK. But if you're greedy you will get burned!
Even a $50 dollar profit several times a day is substantial. Beats working at Burger King!
- Scan & look for fresh plays, how? You need to know what's being played on a daily basis
- Read symbol within L2 Screen ~ should I continue?
- Find the 10dayavg_vol / 52wk hi/low / float / ~ should I continue?
- Find important information using iHub 'public message board' ~ should I continue?
REMEMBER: Every stock symbol on the OTC Market is YOUR ADVERSARY........ treat each one as so and you'll do fine.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
*** Also, don't forget to log all your interesting OTC_BB finds: [I use Strategy Desk] from Ameritrade.
Once you log.... continue too watch in real-time during trading hours... as this is another part of real-time DD.
The list grows each day for stocks I select to watch between .001 to .05c
I have a number of these links opened using Fox Browser to include Ameritrade:
I also have favorites: People I follow + Boards [keep your favorites to a minimal so you can easily reference during trading hours]
If you need help in a few areas: http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/board.aspx?board_id=19900
Ticker Symbol Meanings [commonly known as the 5th letter]
A Class A.
B Class B.
C Exempt from Nasdaq® listing requirements for a limited period of time.
D A new issue of an existing stock. (Often the result of a reverse split.)
E Delinquent in required filings with the SEC as determined by the NASD®.
G First Convertible Bond.
H Second Convertible Bond, same company.
I Third Convertible Bond, same company.
L Miscellaneous situations such as foreign preferred, preferred when-issued, a second class of units, a third class of warrants, or a sixth class of preferred stock.
M Fourth preferred, same company.
N Third preferred, same company.
O Second preferred, same company.
P First preferred.
Q In bankruptcy proceedings.
S Shares of beneficial interest.
T With warrants or with rights.
V When-issued and when-distributed.
X Mutual Fund.
Y ADR (American Depositary Receipts).
Z Miscellaneous situations such as a second class of warrants, a fifth class of preferred stock, a stub, a foreign preferred when-issued, or any unit, receipt, or certificate representing a limited partnership interest.
DISCIPLINE & PATIENCE
I'll update the Sticky_Note Section Weekly ~
Below are links to comments made by SuperC and Friends!
Learn More: http://learn.advfn.com/index.php?title=Main_Page http://ihwiki.advfn.com/index.php?title=Site_Map
Don't forget that in order to use TOOLS effectively you need to sign up:
NOTE: I want to make this perfectly clear, I do not work for ihub, but ihub works for me, and, the
RECURRING CHECK CARD XXXXX0080 INVESTORS HUB
$12.95 to $16.99 Basic
IS WELL WORTH IT!!!
Pro Traders realize... you need Chart_Data + iHub_Data + Stock_Data to make an informed decision!
Once you know the basic's of the system there's plenty of time too hone your skills before you actually buy!
SuperC & Friends