Iraqi Dinar Discussion Board

[Mr. Bill]

Very interesting reading IMO

http://www.dinarrecaps.com/our-blog/tlar-members-discussion-on-50-dinar-note-part-3

Tlar Diane, yes it is my speculation. I feel pretty good that the smalls are printed based on my involvement and experiences with this investment.

Let me explain.

In 2012, I was a member of DA and Kap and I were on the same page. We had talked a few times on the phone and our relationship was good.

In 2012 articles appeared saying Shabibi intended to release the smalls by September of that year which everyone took to mean that the RV would happen by that same period because he also stated it was in conjunction with the deletion of the zero program.

Then articles came out saying Shabibi had let 2 contracts to print the currency and coins.

One to England for bills, one to Germany for coins.

This was after parliament had studied the designs and approved them in late 2011.

Maliki turned the heat up on Shabibi attempting to stop him from proceeding.

The newspapers were filled with article after article from Maliki minions stating they should not do it because of the potential for counterfeiting, which in itself was a stupid argument because the Iranian counterfeiting was rampant at the time.

A couple of months after Shabibi had said the contracts were let, Kaperoni received an IM from a member on DA stating the guy had a son who worked at one of the branches of de la Rue.

The son had called the father and reported to him that he had seen many pallets on the dock that were to be delivered to Iraq. They were covered so he could not definitively say for sure if these were the smalls.

Kaperoni called me the same day to tell me what had been reported to him. About a day later the same member IM'd me the same information and he and I had a few conversations on this subject.

A day or two later the same member IM'd me to let me know the pallets were now gone. Within 48 hours, an article surfaced out of Iraq stating they were shutting down the street in front of the CBI under heavy armed security as many armored trucks were making a delivery. If Kap is honest and I think he is, he will verify this story.

de la Rue is an English company. de la Rue prints currencies for countries all over the world.

Shabibi stated in early 2012 that contracts had been let, one to print bills with an English company, one to mint coins with a German company.

Admittedly no article has ever surfaced specifically stating the new bills are printed but there is proof they completed the coin manufacturing as there has been articles about this,

If the contract that was let to print the coins is verified then I think we can assume the contract to print the bills was completed too.

Diane, the dinar you hold now is part of the 2003 printing and was printed by de la Rue under an 80 million dollar contact by our Treasury department.

By 2012 counterfeiting by Iran was so rampant that I don't think this printing was more of the same bills printed in 2003.

The CBI had already stated their intention to print a new currency with high security features. The CBI had already spent well over a year trying to remove the existing 3 zero currency having started in April 2011.

Also new designs had been approved indicating that these were different bills, not more of the same.

In addition Shabibi had indicated in an article that he would release the smalls in September at the same time he was going to launch deletion of the zero program. So are the smalls printed?

I will let you decide but for my money I think they are. Are they sitting at the banks as I write this? I think they are. That's the intel part of this.

We know that the banks have the coins because the CBI held a special auction for those banks that are going to be involved foreign currency exchange.

USD is a foreign currency to Iraq and it is what they will be buying once the deletion of the zero program goes into force

So to me it is logical to think that if these banks have the fils (coins), the cat is already out of the bag.

So as far as these banks are concerned, they already know what's going on so why not let them have the bills too? Hope this helps. tlar

DreamWeaver Tlar, if I'm remembering articles correctly. Small denoms were printed in late 2011. In 2012 Shabibi turned around and had these small denoms reprinted.

Reason for reprinting the small denoms, as I understand it, was that new law stipulated that all currency must contain the 3 languanges and Shabibi wanted to make sure new small denoms were compliant and all ready to go for release in September 2012.

I'm taking it on faith these new small denoms were reprinted and are sitting somewhere ready for release--though everyone needs to make up their own mind. After all, it's all conjecture as we've never actually seen photos of the new small denoms.

We do know that some bills were reprinted recently (10,000 note) as we have seen photos of those.

Also, Iraq's pattern is to announce that they need to reprint the currency sometime down the road when--a short time later--we learn that the bills were most likely already printed when the articles first came out.

That's Iraq's pattern. Talk about something as though it is a long way off in the future, when it is already done OR talk about things as though they're already done and never get around to implementing them.

It is dang confusing. Definitely a "do as I say not as I do" country. :P Anyways, that's my take on those old articles. Best ~ DW.

Tlar DW, you have a good memory. In November of 2010 Shabibi announced that he would re-print the smalls based on a request from the Kurds that they have their lanquage also represented on the money as they felt they were an important part of Iraqi society.

Originally I though this is why they did not redenominate in 2010 but thought it was just a hold up until these notes (the 3 language notes) were reprinted.

In honor of that request Shabibi put everything on hold and then submitted requests for new designs of the bills with the three languages. Once in they were then submitted in 2011 to parliament and as you can imagine parliament took their sweet time before they actually approved the designs in late 2011.

In early 2012 Shabibi announced that they would be released in September of the same year.

There have been not 2 but rather 3 printings of the smalls. The first was in 2003.

In 2006 at a strategic meeting the CBI held it was mentioned that 14 different bills had been printed in 2003. At the time the same bills we see today were the only bills released.

The 50, 250, 500, 1000, 5000, 10000, and 25000.

That left 7 unaccounted for bills that had not been released. I figured it was the 1, 5, 10, 20, 100 and 2 fil notes, the 250 fil and the 500 fil.

Since the 50 was already released in 2003 that left only the bills I described as unreleased.

It was also in June of 2006 that parliament voted on and had decided to use the "1000 fils equals 1 dinar system" rather than "100 dinars equals one dinar system".

This to me meant that as far back as 2006 they were thinking about the dinar being a valuable currency.

Somewhere around 2008-2009 Iran started chronically counterfeiting Iraq's currency starting with the 10,000 dinar note. They did this because they needed hard currency because off the sanctions.

The US reported to the Maliki government that this was going on but they did not do anything about it nor did they ever make an arrest of any organization related to Iran.

I surmised at the time this was intentional to the point Maliki was either supportive of the Iranian counterfeiting and part of it, or at the very least he was protecting them and turning a blind eye to it.

Maliki was the head of the internal security, police etc so he could easily have stopped any investigation that might lead back to Iran.

We know that as Smart as Shabibi is he would have attempted to secure the currency so it is not far-fetched to assume in 2008-2009 he would have already printed the second printing of the smalls (the 2 language notes), especially considering his intention to release them in 2010.

In 2012 we know Shabibi let contracts to re-print the smalls again..

So if you figure 2003 the initial printing then printed the smalls, and in 2008-2009 he printed the 2 language notes with security features, and again in 2012 he let new contracts for the 3 language notes, that's a total of 3 printings without release. Lets hope three times is a charm. tlar

DreamWeaver Thanks, Tlar, for clarifying. Good stuff. Wasn't in investment in 2012, so only going from memory reading articles in forums and old posts, including the one about someone seeing the pallets, which I accepted as probably true.

After reading your post, I'm perplexed as to why they are pulling the 50s -- no longer legal tender -- UNLESS the new small denoms to be released at RV are: 1, 5, 10, 20, and 50 (instead of 100).

So now it makes sense that they would announce 50 notes will no longer be legal tender after April 30th.

Why? Because they will be releasing NEW 50s and they don't want any issue in the future with having to differentiate between counterfeited old 50s and newer notes more secure--especially since Iran could be up and printing counterfeited 50s in no time and pumping them into the marketplace.

Remember, they told us that old denoms and new will run concurrently for several years. This way, they neutralize threat of counterfeited 50s completely.

As it is, Iraqis will have to go into the banks to exchange; and these banks have the new de la rue machines as well as trained staff to spot counterfeited bills.

Also, post RV, those 250, 500, 1,000, 5,000, 10,000 and 25,000 notes will be worth too much for most merchants to exchange so most citizens will be going into the bank to either deposit them into their bank accounts or exchanging them for new, more secure dinar denominations.

So the bulk of all denoms circulating in Iraq, post RV--to run concurrent with new bills released--will be making their way into banks, past trained staff and de la rue machines.

So, Tlar, I'm thinking that IF they have decided to RV over $3, as you believe--and which seems to be possible from Flyboy's recent posting as far as words of ex-Governor--then why would they issue a 100 dinar note?

That 100 dinar note would be worth around $300, which seems way too high. No need for any denom higher than a 50, as that would be worth around $150--higher than highest US denomination of $100.

It makes perfect sense that they would be giving Iraqis 60 days to exchange these 50s for electronic dinar OR to give them the equivalent in other denominations.

IMO this is a very strategic move by CBI in preparation of releasing new small denoms (1, 5, 10, 20, 50). It not only neutralizes the threat of Iran counterfeiting concurrently circulating 50s (old and new)-- but it also to get those reluctant Iraqi citizens to set up bank accounts. Why?

Banks don't have enough alternative denominations available to accommodate Iraqis turning in their 50s.

So when people come in to exchange their 50s for other denoms, the bank will simply tell them they are "sold out" of the alternative denoms and only way for them to get credit for every last "penny" they are turning in is to set up bank accounts so electronic dinar can be credited.

Who isn't going to want every last cent coming to them? (Even those of us that may have 100 of those 50 dinar notes, worth only about $4 USD, will be returning them to dealers before April 15th, as post RV they may be worth as much as $15,000.)

How does this theory hit you, Tlar, and everyone? In my mind it makes perfect "cents" (LOL) they would be bringing out a new 50 dinar note instead of the 100 they originally printed.

If Shabibi's plan was still in effect, as far as delete the zeros staging at around $.86-$1.00, keeping those 100s makes sense.

But, IMO, there is validation to thought that things have changed and they are planning to RV over $3. Why do I believe this?

Because of their recent move to make currently circulating 50 dinar notes illegal tender. Why do this if they aren't planning to bring out new 50s--and those new 50s will replace the planned 100s.

Anyway, that's my logic, though open mind to all other theories. Until then, I'll be hanging around, down here in the rabbit hole, waiting for an RV so I can get the heck out of here and go topside. LOL.

Tlar, appreciate all you bring to this site and the dinar community. Love exchanging thoughts with you and look forward to all of this being in the rear view mirror. For today, I am really, really optimistic we're well on our way to seeing this RV in the next few days, weeks, or months. Best to all ~ DW

HandOverFist Just to confirm, I remember the printing/reprinting of the smalls just as Tlar, DreamWeaver and Brule posted.

http://www.dinarrecaps.com/our-blog/tlar-members-discussion-on-50-dinar-note-part-2

http://www.dinarrecaps.com/our-blog/tlar-members-discussion-on-50-dinar-note-part-1