Nice Recap
Of all the ridiculous unsupported with any facts theories that have given so much false hope for escrows. After all these years of failed theories maybe just maybe most board readers are realizing the obvious truth, and we can transition the discussion to COOP which is a real subject.

MSR valuations are subject to audit

MSR valuations are subject to Auditors evaluations and in the case of Bank owned Mortgage Servicer’s, subject to close review by government regulator examiners. Multiple factors make different servicing portfolios perform uniquely, prepayment rates vary by type of loan, ie FHA, VA conventional etc, Geographic concentration is another key factor driving prepayment rates affecting the expected duration of the loans. Average credit scores are important predictor of default rates and especially important in today’s market situation. Of course, the average weighted interest rate of a servicing portfolio compared to current interest rates is the key driving factor in the estimated duration of a servicing portfolio. All of these factors and more are considered in the valuation of a specific portfolio. Mortgage Servicer’s typically employ an independent source to provide a current valuation of their portfolio value. These estimates employ software models using all the relevant factors to estimate the value. Actual servicing sale transactions are also used to estimate the market value of a specific portfolio. The mortgage servicer’s then compares these estimates to the MSR value on their books and adjust that value accordingly. The companies use the independent valuations to justify the validity of the book value of their MSR asset. Still, it has been my experience that some Mortgage Servicer’s get away with over valuing their MSR’s, at least for a quarter or two. We will have to wait to see what COOP does.

Great Post Vodka, the Ugly TRUTH

Severe negative impact on Mortgage Servicing companies

It is clear that the government did not understand the extreme adverse impact the new “Stimulus “ packages would cause to the Mortgage industry in general and most specifically to mortgage servicing particularly the private non bank owned operations. The current environment is causing unprecedented loss of value of MSR assets as a result of historic high levels of refinance volumes, and at the same time historically high levels of defaults. The result is an Industry liquidity crisis as the responsibility to advance defaulted payments to the MBS owners comes at a time when credit availability to non bank mortgage companies is vanishing. Credit from Warehouse Lenders is being reduced or eliminated in many cases, and credit directly secured by MSR’s has been virtually eliminated. The Balance sheets of Mortgage companies will suffer major damage as the companies write down the value of their MSR assets with required mark to market accounting. The industry is desperately trying to educate the Government about the unintended consequences involved with the stimulus packages in the current shut down environment, and trying to find and craft a solution, but I expect some private mortgage companies will disappear.

Yes I did Rockie

DimeQ distribution?

I have not been following the Board lately and traveling. Just got home and got a surprise when I went thru the mail that came in while I was gone. Two letters from the WMILT, one containing a check for $214,091.00. The letter was not specific except to say it was in “connection with your claim classified in subordinated Class 18”. I assume but not certain it must be my old DimeQ claim. In my opinion, this is the last money I will see from this long fiasco. When we sold the Dime Savings Bank to WAMU I never expected it to turn out to be a disaster, although I did not have much confidence in WAMU Senior management, I thought their size and the scale of their mortgage business would insulate them from complete failure. I was wrong and it cost me and many others big time.

Just checking in for first time since March
Expecting the BK to close very soon based on the latest news so thought I would check the Board to see if most are finally accepting the obvious truth about little or nothing coming to our escrow accounts, Not surprised to see that many are still holding onto some hope for the various theories, still unsupported by any relevant facts. Most of us in the “Naysayer” camp have moved on, accepting the reality of what fair and reasonable really means in this BK, we got commons. That is all we get IMO and I am confident time will prove that to be it. GLTA

Just thought I would check the board

Received a nice check from the WMILT for my unsecured claim and it got me to thinking I might check the board after a long hiatus. I expected it would now be all about Coop and Escrow delusions would at last be over. But I am surprised to see the unsubstantiated theories still run rampant with the same old preachers selling new nonsensical interpretations of current events although nothing has changed and every past prediction has failed. Amazingly, a surprising number of posters still believe or need to believe in the myth of escrow millions. The actual MBS securitization process utilizing safe harbor, and Trusts has been explained and ignored many times by me and others who were in the mortgage business. The assets were sold to investors, any retained interests were on the balance sheet and sold to JPM. The MBS servicers remit all the cash flows less the serving fees to the investor/ owners every month as payments are received. Earnings are not held by the trusts. There are no hidden assets and or earnings sitting around unaccounted for, untaxed by state or federal governments, unclaimed by any entity just waiting for the magic moment, “the tell” to come to our escrow accounts.

Agreed

BK is correct as usual. Not a theory, but a conclusion based upon factual public disclosed documentation.

As you correctly said;

No evidence of left over Safe Harbor Assets has been found after all these years. Safe Harbor was used during the structuring process of MBS issuance to protect MBS investors. MBS were routinely sold forward prior to completing the MBS and investors relied on the safe harbor to protect their investment prior to delivery of the MBS. Retained interests in MBS, if any, would have been booked on the balance sheet as held for investment assets and purchased by JPM in this case. Again, I have not seen any evidence of any safe harbor assets that some believe will show up in our escrow accounts.

Prelude thanks for the comment

To answer your question, I do believe there will be something left for Escrows after the WMILT settles Existing disputes and pays obligations ahead of us in the waterfall. I don’t think it will be a substantial amount. Based upon my knowledge and experience on the use of safe harbor during the securitization process, I do not believe there is anything coming to escrows from any of the speculation concerning assets un owned and left behind somewhere in Safe Harbor.

Prediction merger will close latest theory won’t happen

Sadly, another escrow theory will probably emerge and despite 100% failure of all previous theories, the new one will be believed by many, and the same old theory pumping will be congratulated as brilliant due diligence.
Hopefully, the merger will begin to refocus discussions on the business and actual results that could potentially bring financial growth to our stock positions GLTA

‘’ Based on these confirmable facts”

Sorry but the so called facts you have listed have no viable confirmation. Safe Harbor was used only for protection of MBS investors during the pooling process. Any retained percentages/tranches of MBS issues would have been recorded on the balance sheet and purchased by JPM. There is no evidence whatsoever of assets sitting around hidden from all disclosure secretly earning returns without any claim from the IRS or anyone else. Truly an unbelievable scenario and yet some continue to hope it is all true. Sad

Hmeat I never said that

I said Safe Harbor Assets are protected from BK, ie seizure, and they are. Nothing to do with consolidating financial statements. Of course, you know that, don’t you??

Bob your missing the point

No one has shown any evidence that such assets exist, and in the business that we were in at WAMU, Safe Harbor was used in the normal way, to protect MBS investors. So, how does one logically conclude that such assets exist?

Short answer, Yes

Assets in safe harbor would be recorded as such on the books but would be protected from BK. The idea stated frequently that they exist and interest is accruing, payments collected etc. just doesn’t make any sense. Safe Harbor Assets are not exempted from IRS tax returns, and interest and principal flows to the asset owners of MBS who report the earnings on their books. The safe harbor speculation is just another theory justifying the hoped for Escrow Billions IMO. I understand the hope, but not the Logic, or conclusions based on the lack of supporting evidence.

NO EVIDENCE OF SAFE HARBOR ASSETS COMING BACK

Where are these assets now? Other than the myth from false conclusions about the normal use of Safe Harbor, which is to protect MBS purchasers during the securitization pooling process, there seems to be no concrete evidence that any such assets coming back to us Exist. Not on any statement, disclosure, not mentioned in anyway in any official document, ownership not claimed by any entity. Clearly, a desperate MYTH.

Safe Harbor Assets coming back is a Myth

As you have repeatedly pointed out, the safe harbor rule is used to protect MBS buyers during the securitization process, as MBS are typically sold forward for future delivery to MBS investors to allow time for new loans to close, and be pooled together into MBS. The continued speculation that there are billions of hidden unclaimed assets accruing interest for years is rediculous and the false hope that Billions are coming back to escrows is the result of endless incorrect conclusions from so called Due DILLIGENCE IMO

Wow I had no idea either LOL

Sorry Panda I quickly scanned today’s posts and misread your BOD as BOARD meaning this board. Not sure the Directors are free to sell shares and if they sold it would probably be disclosed. Point is, there has been a very high opportunity LOST cost of holding this stock in this unprecedented rally.

Panda, sorry that isn’t true

I sold half of my shares at 1.55 in April and used the proceeds to buy JPM shares at 84.20. Since then, JPM has paid me 1.06 per share in dividends, and the pps is up 13.40+. With the broad market movement up, there are many, many stocks that provide ample return opportunities. I can’t imagine I am the only BOD member who has sold to seek better returns.

Sad MEANIGLESS repetitious posts of OLD DOCUMENTS IMO

GREAT DUE DILLIGENCE

All the congratulations and appreciation for the Great Due DILLIGENCE is hard to understand. Other than the Psychological effect of reading something positive, there seems to have been little value from the Due DILLIGENCE conclusions evidenced by all the missed predictions and failed Theories that have not produced a single dollar for escrows. At the same time, the plain language in the POR 7, the disclosures and statements from the FDICR, and the WMILT are easy to understand and proven to be TRUE every time. Seems clear based on what has happened and continues to play out, that Forum due DILLIGENCE is of little value to us, in REALITY.

Claw I think AZ first asserted such, LG then agreed

Of Course, as usual they are both wrong, and the latest disclosure proves the point as nothing about NOLs mentioned.

For insight, suggest you look at Post 38211 eom

Just as you posted,Claw

The filing was not required but they elected to do it.

You’re Definition of silly confidence

Rediculous! Easy to be confident when EVERY THEORY has FAILED, and you have fifty years of experience in the Mortgage Banking business, and had friends on the WAMU board, and you were on the board of Dime Savings Bank with a WAMU board member etc etc etc LOGIC LEADS TO REALITY MOST OF THE TIME AND REALITY DOESNT CARE ABOUT OUR DISAPPOINTMENTS.

BKshadow explained this to you two weeks ago

See his post to you on 9/14 addressing your speculation concerning the subs and safe Harbor. Or, you can wait like the rest of us for time to prove your conclusions wrong IMO. You never did give a link to any document that explains where the hoped for missing assets are, or who and how is in charge of delivering them to us. I'm confident they don't exist but I know you believe otherwise. That's OK, no need to argue back and forth. Time is running out so we will all be finding out before to long, I think. GLTA

GREAT NEWS ONLY FOR MBS INVESTORS in LAWSUIT

This is the notice associated with the DB lawsuit settlement it has nothing to do with ESCROWS.

Your mixing two things incorrectly

Safe Harbor was used in the securitization process protecting the MBS purchasers until delivery of the purchased MBS

Retained interests of tranches of securities were not held in safe harbor, they were assets held and booked like other assets held for investment, and the income from such was booked as well, and therefore subject to seizure

So, where are these hidden assets,LOL

Show me a direct link to any such

Claw these types of retained interests are Booked

And any such would have been Assets on the Consolidated Balance Sheet at the time of seizure and then sold to JPM.

Claw you are correct, but

I was referring to the WMILT FAQ update that was linked by the OP

WMILT update on runoff notes published 9/20/2017

Fidelity notified me of the redemption on 9/26

I posted that news on this forum on 9/26

My Fidelity account credited with cash today

Oak tree, you can’t Short ESCROWS, lol, eom

SAD REALITY and Time is running out, FINALLY

SAFE HARBOR ASSETS, there are none for escrows
COVERED BOND ASSETS, nothing to do with escrows
FDIC UPDATE VERY POSITIVE FOR ESCROWS, rediculous
THE WAY FORWARD, DUAL TRACKING, conclusions from private study and Due Dilligence, worthless so far
SAME OLD THEORISTS with new Theories Again, ask yourself are they Credible, NO!

IF THEORY EXPLANATIONS AND DATE PREDICTIONS ARE CONFUSING AND COMPLICATED TO UNDERSTAND, ITS NOT YOU, ITS THE THEORIES AND THERORISTS CONSTANTLY TAKING A NEW PATH TO THE SAME OLD CONCLUSIONS.

EVERY OLD THEORY HAS RESULTED IN ZERO CASH FOR ESCROWS, AND TIME WILL PROVE ALL THE KNEW ONES A FAILURE AS WELL IMO

NO ONE KNOWS EXACTLY WHAT OR WHEN, but so far the same people predicting dates and results have been 100% wrong. So, trust yourself and set your own expectations based on whatever makes you feel good, Facts about what has happened, and Logic about what that means for the future, or just plain Hope if you want. GLTA

Football not sure how long to final resolution

But there are fewer real significant questions now and as we continue so the final outcome should become increasingly clear to most. Of course, I expect the Spin theories will continue to encourage reality denial until the very end. No one knows exactly what and exactly when but that isn’t the point. The point is all of the Spinners have been wrong about every one of the theories and dates predicted, and all of the so called naysayers have been 100% correct predicting and explaining why the theories would fail. So, each can decide and set your own expectations based on what has transpired over and over for years. REALITY, FANTASY ITS A PERSONAL PERCEPTION AND CHOICE. GLTA

Ron the DB claim was allowed PROPORTIONALY

AND AFTER THE LATEST DISTRIBUTION THERE IS ONLY 5 % of the 2.1 Bil left, which is expected to be enough to cover future loses and expenses

AS EXPECTED, ITS UNLIKELY WE GET ANYTHING

AND SO THE SPIN STARTS. THE DENIAL CONTINUES. The update language is plain and easy to understand. Not much left at the FDICR, and not much at the WMILT. So, back to all the secret hidden assets theories but we are getting close to the end. TIME IS RUNNING OUT.

WHAT IS YOUR POINT ?

We all know we have LTI ie escrows! If we released so, again WHAT is your Conclusion or Point with this post?

Full Call notice from Fidelity

WMIH CORP NOTE 13.0% 03/19/2030
Redemption Price 100
Call Date 2017-09-29