Say What Ya Like

[3kidsplus1]

The Basher's Handbook


Reprinted here as a service to those who doubt this actually exists, or is simply an unfounded urban legend.

Is the "Bashing" of a stock an essential part of the online investment landscape?

Our Constitution guarantees us free speech and we have always valued the lessons gleaned from dissent. When does dissent cross over that imaginary line and become "Bashing"? To often we find well grounded dissent capriciously labeled as "Bashing" by over zealous investors bent on protecting a stocks reputation at any cost. The "Bashing" that is addressed on this site is quite different from dissent. The Anatomy of a Basher strives to look at the calculated erosion of confidence in a given stock. Erosion by means that are, in every sense, void of truth, hinged on deception and innuendo, and motivated by greed at the expense of others. This compendium is offered to aid in identifying the telltale signs of "Bashing", and hopefully provide a counter balance to this heretofore unchecked manipulation of investors fears for personal gain.

IS IT EASIER TO SCARE PEOPLE INTO SELLING THAN IT IS TO SCARE PEOPLE INTO BUYING A STOCK? I have asked some knowledgeable investors this question and the answer is always: "YES, OF COURSE YES!"
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WHO BASHERS PREY UPON

Consider the elderly that are investing for retirement, they find their way to the message boards for validation only to see false posts about "SEC Violations" and "Class action suits"... or the head of a "typical growing family", with children to put through college, who is monitoring a message board only to read posts by a "pack of 15 to 20 Bashers" (probably 5 or 6 under various alias's) posting continuous disinformation... what do you think these new investors will do? It's safer to not buy or even sell the stock, put the money back in the bank than to deal with all this whirl wind of "unsupported" negative chaff.

The Internet has lured a whole new class of investor into the market. A new investor is just that - New! This new investor, while learning the basics, is particularly vulnerable to the tactics of professional Bashers. New investors tend to lurk in the background of message boards, content to form independent opinions based on what they read with their own eyes. Very often, honest, intelligent and cautious people can easily be overcome by a well orchestrated propaganda effort.

You must always remember that their is a lot of money to be made in just the motion of a stock UP or DOWN, it doesn't matter! And Bashers have money at risk just as you do. But they have the edge of fear, lies, and falsehoods to post while preying on the un-initiated. The average investor does not have the edge of organized deception.

Recent revelations have indicated that even Market Makers (those charged with keeping the playing field level) have been involved in stock manipulation by Bashing on a stock message board. HAVE NO DOUBT THAT THIS IS A REAL THREAT!

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Lesson 1: Remember, BASHERS NEVER BASH A BAD STOCK. Check the boards for stocks with no potential. They never have any Bashers. Bashers only go after stocks that are moving up or have excellent potential to do so. Bashers work to bring the price down to either increase their position at the expense of others or help a short make their bones.

Lesson 2: BASHERS ALWAYS BRING UP OLD NEWS THAT YOU HAVE HEARD MANY TIMES. New startup companies always have a few bits of bad news. The Basher will post this over and over again. Unsophisticated Bashers will try to freshen up old news with a new date or by-line in an attempt to fool you.

Lesson 3: BASHERS POST MANY TIMES A DAY. They try to wear you out. They comment on everything, every other post, and can answer every question. THEY KNOW IT ALL! There is no positive comment they won't Bash. They try to control the board. True longs may have to confront the Bashers or they will appear to the newbies as being the people with all the information. This is best accomplished by posting positive, well researched data on the company, repetitively, while trying hard not to engage the Bashers in direct repartee. REMEMBER - LONGS... RESIST USING THE BASHERS ALIAS!

Lesson 4: BASHERS WILL LIE TO YOUR FACE. Never trust a Basher. The truth on startup companies is that they make mistakes. What new company hasn't? The Basher will compare your issue to a another companies, financials - deals - management, etc., trying to lure you into making an Apples to Oranges comparison. Remember each company is unique and while it is prudent to seek out established indicators, do so with care and don't take someone else's word for it. Strive to come up with at least a "six-pack" of indicators so your vision of the state of a company is not tied to a single barometer. Not doing so is tantamount to going to a Race Track and betting on the "Pretty Brown Horsey". BASHERS WANT TO WHISPER IN YOUR EAR -PLANT A SEED OF DOUBT, AND HOPE THAT YOU ARE NOTSAVVY ENOUGH TO RESEARCH THE TRUTH ON YOUR OWN. This is how they achieve their greatest success.


DOUBT + FEAR + LAZINESS = BAIL OUT!

This is your investment... work for it, protect it and don't panic on the words of very shadowy figure that "has your best interest in their heart". Consider that one factor: Someone you have never met, is not a member of your family, is now, out of the goodness of their hearts - GIVING YOU FREE ADVICE (that you didn't ask for). It's a no brainer. They have motives $$$$$$$$$$$$.

Lesson 5: Bashers know YOU CAN'T VERIFY THEIR STATEMENTS. That's why they make the vague statements they do. They rely on you being to lazy to research their droppings other than to scan the board for others opinions. This is particularly dangerous when you consider that Bashers work in packs and often validate and back up each others nonsense with what appears to be "innocuous and unsolicited" verification by comrade Bashers. Let's face it, we are all conditioned to "believe" everything we see in writing. If others by virtue of their "posts" also confirm this belief, then we are subconsciously doomed to swallow the hook, line and sinker... Basher - 1 Honest Investor - 0

Lesson 6: The Bashers PLAY ON YOUR LACK OF KNOWLEDGE. They can lie about information and you won't know the difference (unless you have done your own DD on the company and know the truth and facts).

Lesson 7: Bashers play on your lack of patience. You have held a stock for a while. You knew it will be a big stock someday, but the BASHER CAN GET TO YOU BECAUSE YOU ARE TIRED OF WAITING FOR YOUR GAIN. That's when the Basher is best. You are tired. You have forgotten the goal for the stock was to hold it for one year. The Basher is bothersome, so you dump it on a bad day. Some others also dump. Then you get mad for your loss and return to let everyone know how mad you are. Then you turn into a semi-Basher as well. THE BASHER HAS WON, AND GAINED A NEW ALLY - YOU!

Lesson 8: BRING THE PRICE DOWN. That is the Basher's job. The truth is not important. Lies are the norm. Post continuously on the board every day. They are trying to scare the newbies that are just investigating a stock. They are trying to wear down the faithful longs on the board and gain free reign and control.


A BASHER HANDBOOK:

Do not underestimate a Bashers influence on a stock. The Pro's are good at what they do and what they do is profit from your losses. Below is their "hand-book". Learn from it or you will be donating your hard earned money to them!

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Rules for Successful Bashing:

1. Be anonymous

2. Use 10% fact. 90% suggestion. The facts will lend credibility to your suggestions.

3. Let others help you learn about the stock. Build rapport and a
support base before initiating your Bashing routine.

4. Enter w/ humor and reply to all who reply to you.

5. Use multiple ISP's, handles and aliases.

6. Use two (2) or more aliases to simulate a discussion.

7. Do not start with an all out slam of the stock. Build softly.

8. Identify your foes (Longs) and the boards "guru" Use them to
your advantage. Lead them do not follow their lead.

9. Only Bash until the tide/momentum turns. Let doubt carry it the
rest of the way.

10. Give the appearance of being open minded.

11. Be bold in your statements. People follow strength.

12. Write headlines in caps with catchy statements.

13. Pour it on as your position gains momentum. Not your personality.

14. Don't worry about being labeled a "Basher". Newbies won't
know your history.

15. When identified put up a brief fight, then back off. Return in an hour unless your foe is a weak in reasoning powers.

16. Your goal is to limit the momentum of the run. Not to tank the
company or create a plunge in the stock; be subtle and consistent.

17. Kill the dreams of profits, not the company or the stock.

18. Use questions to create critical thinking. Statements to
reinforce facts.

19. DO NOT LIE, NAME CALL or USE PROFANITY.

20. Encourage people to call the company. 99% won't. They'll take your word for claims made. If they do call you can always find something that is inaccurate in how they report their findings.

21. Discourage people from believing Press Releases.
Encourage them to call the company. They won't out of laziness.

22. If the companies history/PR's are negative constantly point to that. Compile a list of this data prior to beginning your efforts.

23. If the price rises blame it on the hype or the PR, temporary
mass reaction, the market, etc. Anything but the stock itself.

24. If other posters share your concerns, play on that and share theirs too.

25. Always cite low volume, even when it's not.

26. Three or four aliases can dominate a board and wear down the longs.

27. Bait the Longs into personal debates putting their
focus/efforts on you and not the stock or facts. Divert their attention from facts.

28. Promote other stocks that would-be investors can turn to
instead of the one your Bashing.

30. Do not fall for challenges on the "values" of what you are doing, it's a game and you are playing it with your own rules.

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Grade 'A' Basher:
If you post lots of old news, respond to all positive posts with a negative side. Never respond to being called a Basher, never post on another board with same alias. Can spend up to 80 hours a week Bashing a stock.


Grade 'B' Basher:
Very good way with words, always claims to be your "friend" taking the positive poster into confidence, never posts on another board, spends about 60 hours a week.


Grade 'C' Basher:
Spends less time than the others but is somewhat effective and gets a C grade due to getting excited when Bashers rules say not to get excited, spends about 40 hours a week.


Grade 'D' Basher:
Needs to learn the basics about being convincing when making a negative statement. Spends a good amount of time working the stock, maybe 20 hours a week.


Grade 'F' Basher:
A complete idiot, most readers are not convinced he knows anything about stocks in general. The type that says a stock "sucks", but gives no rationale, shows up every so often but no regular schedule.


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LEARN ABOUT HOW BASHERS WORK: For instance: did you know that some Bashers are paid?

Golden Rule:

IGNORE THEM... learn how professional Bashers are paid: When you REPLY to Bashers you give them an opportunity to earn appox. 5-7 dollars. The service agreement they enter into with their employer states their messages will be monitored for content, profanity, lies, etc. but Overseers and the like don't have the time to check all their Bashers messages. Only occasional spot checks are done. Those who manage the Basher will generally read the headlines to see if a Basher is replying to other posters by name. That tells them the Basher isn't just "posting blindly" or repeating the same message over and over since they won't pay for those.(True to form a Basher will put the bite on anyone, even their unscrupulous employer). A Basher will attempt to milk three to five replies per post at one to two dollars each. This way the Basher spreads negative influence to as many stockholders as possible. A Basher will create this discussion thread because it takes less time reading more messages than is necessary. This ultimately allows the Basher more time to post and make money. In general, NEVER ENGAGE A BASHER. Make them read all the posts and think up ways to enter the discussion. NEVER ENGAGE A BASHER; if you do so then YOU BECOME THE BASHERS AID! If you feel compelled to challenge a Basher do so without mentioning his/her true alias in your response. This will make it hard for the Basher to use your post as a revenue stream. Read the news, do your own homework and make your own decisions. Get real time quotes and follow the stock for a couple of weeks. Due Diligence is key here. Know that there will be a time when the stock runs up which will be followed followed by the Bashers and those that missed the boat. The Bashers will trash the stock by saying such things as "it's a Pump and Dump" and "the company is lying" and deceiving. There goal is to scare off newbies and potential new investors by "shaking" you out of your shares. Take the time to confirm your DD ,trust your own judgement and believe in yourself, pick your point of return or loss and live with it. Don't listen to hype or Bashers trust your own judgement. Live by the rules you have created .

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HOW TO IDENTIFY A BASHER

1. Check the "Born on Date" Bashers create identities on a regular basis. Rarely do you find a Basher with older "Created On" date. So click on the Identity icon for more details.

2. Take the time to look at the Basher's history of Posts. Go to other boards and see if their is a pattern to the theme of the posts. Bashers rarely waste time trying to blend in with "positive" posts, unless they are cultivating a new uninformed assistant.

3. When did the Basher show up. Bashers rarely show up when activity is in at a Lull. They show up when activity up/down..

4. Bashers never answer direct questions except with another question.

5. Bashers do work in teams (sometimes themselves as a team). So be suspicious of someone showing up and automatically having a Shadow to converse with who supports their argument.

6. Bashers always select "an argument" that can never be resolved by research.

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The Basher 'Pack' Mentality

Bashers love to work in packs. It provides the quintessential cover to achieve supposedly "independent" validation of an argument. It is neither independent nor validating.

Pack Structure: Basher Packs can be comprised of any number of Bashers. They can be purposely formed within an organization or they can be "ad hoc" formed during a conclave on a particular board. In fact a pack mentality can be achieved by an ambitious "party of one" with a few select aliases.

Once a pack is formed, a leader emerges. This leader is usually acknowledged by other Bashers because of 1. Knowledge of the stock. or 2. Recognition by current board Longs (high visibility). Once established the Leader will usually work the Pack members up in to a posting frenzy. Constantly changing themes and even occasionally biting the ear of another pack member (this earns instant credibility), and it doesn't offend the bitten Basher because he/she knows it is all part of the effect. Quite sophisticated.


Packs will disband and slink away without notice. Usually this is the call of the Pack Leader who is adept at recognizing overplay. More often than not, Pack members must move on because they have other Bashing commitments to fulfill. They will return to the site of a good hunt over and over again, until hamstringing is achieved.

What calls a pack together. The Cry of the Leader. Certain Bashers love to work together. They know each others bite, how to feign in and out, it is a well choreographed Bash when pack members have worked together before. They constantly check their "Sites Du Jour" for signs of Pack activity. Occasionally they will throw out a "Nibbler" Bash to see if the pack responds or if not they can work the site themselves. It's all about effectiveness, time and earning money.

[marcos]

If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you;
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too;
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or being lied about, don't deal in lies,
Or being hated, don't give way to hating,
And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise:

If you can dream -- and not make dreams your master;
If you can think -- and not make thoughts your aim;
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two imposters just the same;
If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken,
And stoop and build 'em up with worn-out tools;

If you can make one heap of all your winnings
And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings
And never breathe a word about your loss;
If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
To serve your turn long after they are gone,
And so hold on when there is nothing in you
Except the Will which says to them: "Hold on!"

If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
Or walk with kings -- nor lose the common touch,
If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you,
If all men count with you, but none too much;
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds' worth of distance run --
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And -- which is more -- you'll be a Man, my son!

http://www.poetryloverspage.com/poets/kipling/kipling_ind.html

¡happy new year, Gemeine Schweik!

[husker]

Like I believe this:
http://www.thisislondon.com/dynamic/news/story.html?in_review_id=545846&in_review_text_id=511810

[jmhollen]

Your brother might want to get up with the folks at Moller
http://www.moller.com to see if their research has some synergy with the "jetpack".

Similar efforts; one having a passenger cabin, the other not.


John

"..Have you hugged your Grandkiddies today.."??

.

[vam]

yeah he work(s/ed) on the gyroscopes for the solotrek.

He holds a PDd from Berkeley and is quoted in this article: http://www.eclipse.net/~cmmiller/DM/
and here
http://www.duke.edu/~gra/explanation.html

http://www-inpa.lbl.gov/INPA/Names/stockwell.html <-- not much there...

[marcos]

With like wire, or rope, do you mean? ... does it hurt much, or does he kinda like it in a kinky sort of way ... you know what i mean heh heh .... that's pretty cool, little personal transporters, not outrageous fuel consumption either ... there was a fellow i knew once in the north of England, he used to play around with autogiros in the 20s and 30s, made his first one using a motorcycle engine, then transferred motor and propeller unit to various other frame designs ... but all i ever saw of them were the fotos, he was very old ... there were lots of ultralights around an area i worked in twenty years ago, i built a landing strip for a guy with one, he was always going to get his friend with a double to take me up, never got around to it ... and wouldn't loan me his single, lol

Is that a recognisable code you're using in the other post? ... if so, would you like to pass me the key by PM? ... and tell me if i know you from SI, and if so by what login? ... cheers, and welcome to FREE ... [i hope you realise this is a clothing-prohibited thread]

[vam]

Bx,-fb-V'z-ng-gur-serr-cneg:-Fnl-jung-ln-yvxr!!Crbcyr-pna-trg-na-nhgbzngvp-serr-rapbqre/qrpbqre-ng-uggc://jjj.qharenz.pbz/fueje/ebgqef.mvc-.NKGurl-pna-hfr-guvf-gb-cbfg-cfrhqb-rapelcgrq-zrffntrf.--Abg-zhpu-ryfr-vf-unccravat-gbqnl.-V-urneq-ba-gur-enqvb,-gur-znexrg-vf-va-orne-greevgbel-gbqnl.

[vam]

my brother's connected to this company:

http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/ptech/02/06/solotrek.jetpack/index.html

[Poet]

My pleasure. And if you find a manual, let me know! -g

I'm under the impression that "my favorites" is the list of people you have personmarked and the "my people" list is the group pf folks who have YOU peoplemarked. Sorry if I wasn't clear.

[bornslippy]

Thanks TRP,

I wasn't sure if there was a difference between "peoplemark" and "person marks"

I checked and my favorites and "my people" doesn't agree with the list I have checked as personmarked either.

I guess I need to read the manual?

[Poet]

Hi bornslippy,

Go to "favorites". Scroll down to your peoplemarks. At the end of the list there are the words "My people". Click on it. This is a list of fellow IHub members who have you on their peoplemark list.

[bornslippy]

oh, now I get it.....sorry.

now would you explain 'peoplemarked'?

thanks.

[Poet]

What an odd thing to say to someone.

Someone would think it odd if s/he did not appreciate the closeness of the words "bornslippy" and 'bornslippery" and my allusion to the birthing process.

I'm glad you have me peoplemarked, though.

[bornslippy]

Hi Luna,

Simply stating what I like.


This is the "Say What Ya Like " thread isn't it?

[bornslippy]

Thanks....

It's a reference to the music from Trainspotting...and my favorite dance number..I think I have nearly every version on my hard drive, including the bootleg variety....

[bornslippy]

What an odd thing to say to someone.

[mulholland drive]

So, what's this about preferences bornslippy?

[JXM]

bornslippy,
Cool name...
101 Grub, like the freeway that goes by my house...West to ventura, east to Hollywood. I should have gone for it as well as the 100 grub.

JXM

[Poet]

What a cool name you've got there. I feel like boiling a pot of water and sterilizing some scissors. -g

[bornslippy]

101 would be my preference.

[JXM]

Grubbage

[marcos]

Seis -

Posted by: marcos
In reply to: Bird of Prey who wrote msg# 388
Date: 5/10/2001 6:45:36 PM
(ET)
Post # of 390


Bird, are you able to support those points in the light of this from the current
thread header? -

'Just because it is different does not make it right or wrong just a thought and
who knows maybe it will inspire other thoughts.'

... as it happens, Gary's thoughts did inspire other thoughts - in this case, mine
... no case has been made to support their violation of anything in any way ... it
is not stipulated in the thread rules that all posters must at all times agree in
every way with all points of others ... is it?

Your points to which i am referring being these, of course -

'1. OFF TOPIC
2. personal attack upon the Chair
3. Duplicate post in an attempt to circumvent the rules of A Small Voice Board.'

http://www.investorshub.com/beta/read_msg.asp?message_id=99728

[marcos]

Cinco -

Posted by: marcos
In reply to: Georgia Bard who wrote msg# 387
Date: 5/10/2001 6:30:40 PM
(ET)
Post # of 389


'You want to post the follow the rules.'

I have followed the rules, as i just pointed out in the post to which you are
responding, and i shall continue to do so.

'You want top play fine I'll delet you.'

I have never asked for 'top play' ... actually, i don't know what it is ... perhaps
you'd care to explain.

'You want to attack me'

Can't deny the thought has crossed my mind since you deleted my post, for
sure ... however, i believe you'd be hard put to identify an attack that is more
than commensurate with the offensiveness of that deletion and your
subsequent personal attacks on me ... and you'd be far more hard put to
identify an attack in the post you deleted - it addressed your ideas, not your
person, and it remains my impression that the addressing of ideas is the
function of message boards ... do correct me if i'm wrong on that.

'You are on a moderated site and that is your problem not mind.

Well, you could have fooled me, i thought we were both on a moderated site.
Had that been true, and a problem existed, it would have been our problem, you
and me together, would it not.

'However you respect Bob's right ...'

Yes, i do ... over and above the fact that there seems little practical alternative,
the man has earned respect ... he has also earned criticism in the distant past,
and i gave him some, and he reinstated me before the unjust suspension was
up ... probably not the only mistake he ever made, since he too is of our
complex species, is he not.


'You refuse to give a direction and underlying basis fine. '

I refuse to consider myself guilty until proven innocent ... if you can make a valid
case for deleting my post, please do so ... be aware however, that you will need
to understand the 'tortious/tortuous' word play in the sense it was posted, and
not invent some conspiratorial or nefarious intent to explain other meanings that
originate in your mind ... i consider that post to have been fair comment, and
emphatically not a candidate for deletion, since it addressed the very ideas on
which you were commenting.

Anyway, the 'direction' is yet to be determined ... depends on your actions, just
like recent direction has ... cheers

http://www.investorshub.com/beta/read_msg.asp?message_id=99716

[marcos]

Otra más -

Posted by: marcos
In reply to: Georgia Bard who wrote msg# 375
Date: 5/10/2001 5:38:48 PM
(ET)
Post # of 386


Your action in censoring out my first response to this post gives to the
tortious/tortuous word play i used another meaning not intended at the time, but
perhaps even more appropriate in light of your subsequent expressions of
cavalier attitude towards such censorship ... specifically, the connotation of
'tortuous' as 'twisting', as opposed to my original use meaning 'circuitous', i.e.
'beating around the bush', or 'somewhat lengthy and containing numerous
oblique references in support of a dubious proposition, yet nevertheless
stimulating considerable humour'.

And 'twisting' is exactly what you're going to get when such a degree of
censorship is permitted to those with vested interests in promulgating specific
slants on ideas ... it is anathema to principles of fair debate, it is deadly to
financial discussion in which all information and perception must be entered to
ensure a full and balanced basis for analysis.

You have no more reason to delete this post than you did the first one - it
contains no personal attack, any more than the first one ... like the first one, it
addresses ideas presented by you, the thread 'chairman', and so should imho
reasonably be considered to be at least as reasonably on-topic as you yourself
are ... it contains no privacy violation, any more than did the first one ... it is not
spam, though it will be copied elsewhere to preserve it whole in the event of its
arbitrary deletion.

You have no excuse to delete either post, and doing so will not further civil
discussion, it will in fact further quite the opposite ... i am unlikely to forget this
matter, fwiw .... i refuse your conditions that i pretend to agree with you before
commenting on your ideas here ... should civil discussion spontaneously erupt
from this mess caused by your deletion, we may, or may not as the case may
be, find topics and sub-topics on which we can both disagree and agree ... who
knows, we are complex beings, it's entirely possible ... however, the way to find
out is not imho through your continued censorship of comments with which you
perceive yourself to disagree.

The way is through discussion.

http://investorshub.com/beta/read_msg.asp?message_id=99649

[X Y Zebra]

Asi me lo imaginaba... (y eso que fui a la escuela y aprendi a contar al menos hasta mil) -gg-

Debes de ser una Cacique poderosa. No me sorprenderia que tuvieras mas de una cabeza reducida de aquellos que se osaron oponerte... Sin duda estudiaste en el Amazonas, no ? -g-

La Dama de Hierro.

Mmmmm, donde esta la kryptonita que tenia por aqui...

[X Y Zebra]

BUT - the players tend not to have nuclear weapons, nor to give arms to temporary 'allies', not to plant land mines to blow up little kids ...

True, but now that I think about these cabrones, you know the Olie Norths of the world y sus compinches... the root of their evil lies not in the fact that they are, 'malos Americanos' but in their zeal learned from their religious upbringing, you know, the real extreme ones, the fundamentalist (Ayatohlas hijos de la chingada)... Yes, I know you know how I think and feel about religion. While I have melowed down somehow, [you know, like a good wine -g-], and I am willing to accept that there are the good curitas, like the ones you mention, I find that the most evil of the power hungry ones fall on the side of the fundamentalist. Those are the ones that take to arms the fastest --children around or not--. I think they view our existance on this earth as "just passing through" on a journey to the "mas alla", so they don't really care.

I say they ought to shoot themselves, and meet their god much quicker and leave us herejes de la chingada to deal with the mundane pleasures of this world... -g-

Pass the wine, women and song.... -gggg-




although, in a zoning dispute with which i am currently peripherally involved, i fully expect Them to consider those options, and i can't deny that it's crossed my mind too.


Aaah! let the power of the borg take you -ggg-

I have had my own experience of "neighborly" fights. I have learned that the cool head of the law, in the end allows you to laugh last. Recuerda que...

El que rie al ultimo, rie mejor.

[Josef Svejk]

And now, humbly something completely different, marcos.

http://www.examiner.com/business/default.jsp?story=b.investor.0405w

Met her, a while back, at the beginning of the y2k stock moonshot days. Asked her what she thought about buying some y2k stuff.

"Don't invest in negativity," was the advice. LOL!

Well, if I'd listened to that bit, I wouldn't have those lovely 80 acres with a cozy pad deep in the gorgeous woods. Sauna in the middle and all.

Grews. Line 'em up, cut 'em down.

Cheers,

Svejk

[Poet]

Cuantos campesinos explotados estan bajo tu poder ?

Mas que puedes contar o puedo recordar.


Y llameme Tokyo Rose. -gg

[X Y Zebra]

Aja... mira marcos, tenemos espias de La Capitana.... -g-

Creo que los suen~os de marcos estan muy lejos de ser campesino explotado. Sin embargo, su realidad es la que me obliga a sugerir que marcos tome armas y levante su revolucion ante la tirana Capitana (mm mira hasta rima, asi que debe de ser verdad -g-).

Sin duda, tu eres una Capitana en tu propio derecho -gg-

La pregunta importante es: Cuantos campesinos explotados estan bajo tu poder ? -gggg-

Viva la Robolucion !!

[Josef Svejk]

Humbly adding one more:

http://www.investorshub.com/beta/read_msg.asp?message_id=98638

Contents:
_______________

"Look in thy glass, and tell the face thou viewest" -- Shakespeare.

_______________

Cheers,

Svejk

[marcos]

Nother one -

Posted by: marcos
In reply to: Georgia Bard who wrote msg# 381
Date: 5/10/2001 2:28:19 AM
(ET)
Post # of 382


That's a bit touchy don't you think ... i will submit to neither of your
conditions, partly because they don't really make sense in the context,
partly because i did not violate the terms of use in any way, but mostly
because i wonder just who are you sir to dictate to me who was entering
into discussion with you on a board supposedly set up for the purpose, if
you didn't want discussion why are you on the internet in the first place ...
there's more, just ask ... i see on Bob's thread you say disputes should be
taken to the parking lot, well sir if you can drum up the courage then just
make one post over there, we'll have a frank and open exchange of views
on censorship ... as for 'posts on Q&A between us' all i see is this one, and
i defy you to find something wrong with it in the context of the full moon
ragging on Bob that was going on at the time -

Posted by: marcos
In reply to: Georgia Bard who wrote msg# 1391
Date: 5/8/2001 2:59:39 AM
(ET)
Post # of 1744


Care to document any of this? ... links to posts, etc ... perhaps as well a
current synopsis on the non-reporting promotion involved at the time ... oh,
and some reasoning on why you think critical thinking is a crime.

[marcos]

Just stashing this here in case it gets deleted like the last one did -

Posted by: marcos
In reply to: Georgia Bard who wrote msg# 378
Date: 5/10/2001 1:57:19 AM
(ET)
Post # of 380


Why would you censor out my post? ... i was about to respond to you, then
find you've deleted what you've responded to ... now to me, that doesn't
make a great deal of sense, perhaps you'd like to explain.

But first - did you get the joke? - 'tortuous' vs 'tortious'? ... so many don't,
and it's amusing because the mixup often makes more sense.

[marcos]

Long as you don't descend to Dylan-doubting, ee-yup ... so many new posts on other threads, there's no way i'll catch up and garden too ... i don't know your DBnBR thread well at all, btw, just happened to follow somebody's bio over there.

[JXM]

I need something to rave about...is this the right thread for it?

[marcos]

Well, that'll do the human experience a lot of good, won't it - save a few millions on already underfunded enforcement, and watch billions go down the drain to crooks plying the stock fraud trade ..... they should put it on a profit-centre basis somehow - let an agency seize assets if they can prove they were obtained through fraud, and let them keep say half to improve the service ... like the RICO act ... although there are problems with that too, it is said.

[marcos]

When the chips are down,
the buffalo is empty.

... gleaned from, believe it or don't - stockhouse ... along with -

My wife and I were happy for twenty years.
Then, we met.

I've known more thieving lying conniving pendejos in the Great White North than anywhere else, but i put that down to the fact that to date i've passed more time in this country than anywhere else ... seems like there's a proportion among the species, everywhere you go ... however, the great majority do not run, or attempt to run, or have the power to attempt to run, world empires ...

You know, the politics i know most is quite local - in three countries, Canada México New Zealand ... and it's all real dirty ... the absolute dirtiest backstabbing bugger thy neighbour strange bedfellows politics you can find ... BUT - the players tend not to have nuclear weapons, nor to give arms to temporary 'allies', not to plant land mines to blow up little kids ... although, in a zoning dispute with which i am currently peripherally involved, i fully expect Them to consider those options, and i can't deny that it's crossed my mind too.

[Poet]

Los campesinos explotados?

Ja! En sus suenos. -gg

[X Y Zebra]

I can always count with great responses from you, had you been my history teacher way back when... my knowledge would be fresher than it is today. However I did have one good history teacher who used to warn the class at the very beginning of the year and say:

I do not care if you pay attention or not, as far as I am concern you can sleep in my class, I will give you a passing grade, I will only ask one favor of you: DO NOT INTERRUPT MY CLASS.

Then he would proceed to get into incredible political rants, (center left) that were absolutely phenomenal. He had the ability to "match" whatever history period we would be studying to an appropriate "current affair"...

The best history classes I received, not only he taught us history, but we could see in current events, how... "history repeats itself" We had alot of fun, as this teacher was full of witty critical statements and thoughts about our world "leaders", sort of... "a la Mencken" -gg-


there were Good Americans beside us towards the end, too, they marched in the parades in el DF ["American Legion', it was called i think, all volunteers, all fine examples of the best of their nation's ideals taking root in the mind of man] ...

To truly expect that all of us "will get along" we need to think in terms of humans as equals, with the particular positive and negative aspects of each region.

Yes, Mexicanos have differences with Americanos and Chinos and whatever... but we are all humans.. --even Argentinos-- -G- The time of conquistas is long gone, and should have been long gone after Imperial Rome... Howevr, so long we have the desire to draw a border line and the drive to control "al vecino", we will not succeed in treating everyone with the freedom each one deserves.

Again, Mencken puts it well...


"It is inaccurate to say I hate everything. I am strongly in favor of common sense, common honesty, and common decency. This makes me forever ineligible for public office."


So, those who have held public offices and in charge of "our destinies", usually lack those attributes that Mencken mentions, hence, we have suffered throughout history the whims of the power hungry, aka politicians. Funny that prostitution has been scorned throughout history as a profession, yet we accept politicians as more graceful sinners...

I guess I can accept a prostitute better than I can a politician... then again, I am biased -gg-


I believe that more women are needed as nation leaders... less testosterone could do well for humanity, then --yet again, the contradiction exists-- since "Iron Lady" Thatcher proved, after all, that when a woman gets really pissed, watch out ! -gg-

I do not what awaits the future of the US/Mexico... and whatever Bushito sayz, no doubt he will have to pay attention to the large and growing hispanic population in the US... At this point the issue of the border line has become even more blurred... and I expect it to become more so since both countries are moving to a more "global" mentality (whatever that may mean). The point is I think both countries will get closer to each other, simply because it makes more sense, given that they are neighbors.

Re: Carlota ... lol !! I have known a few females with a lot more common sense than many-a-machos who preach logic and practicality to all 4 winds. This particular Carlota does not strike me as one of them since this business of the on/off main squeeze, sounds like an entertaining even interesting love story, but not necessarily "rational" then again, nothing in love is. lol.

... people just have to learn to get along, that's basic to it ... education - all comes down to that ... we need a new Vasconcelos, and maybe a Twain or Mencken to rise from the sierra ... as for me, i am being sent to the garden ... 'a tus ordenes, Capitana', aaargh

LOL !! yes, I agree, people need to get along, that is what I was talking about earlier see the Mencken quote above... I agree with you education and the ability to "see the other point of view" is what is needed... don't know if we humans will ever be capable in large scale to do that in order to sotp all the nonesense that goes on.

As for La Capitana... good luck in your personal revolucion, best to take the banner of los campesions explotados ... strike for beer brakes more often lol.

[Josef Svejk]

Humble well, marcos, if you were hoping, like me, that the next SEC dood would be a man/woman "of the pebbles" as opposed to "of the dough," so sorry to disappoint you...

http://quote.bloomberg.com/fgcgi.cgi?ptitle=Top%20Financial%20News&s1=blk&tp=ad_topright_top....

Harvey L. Pitt, a Washington lawyer who has represented Merrill Lynch & Co., the New York Stock Exchange and international accounting firms, is President George W. Bush's choice to head the Securities and Exchange Commission.

[snip]

While representing securities firms and accountants, he has opposed some of Levitt's causes on opening information to investors and dealing with auditors' potential conflicts.

[snip]

Pitt is ``not likely to share Arthur Levitt's interest in pushing the envelope on policies aimed at individual investors,' said Columbia University law professor John Coffee.

Pitt has been a critic of the SEC's Regulation Fair Disclosure, which forbids selective disclosure of company news. While it was still a proposal, he said any rule ``could create a serious problem for public companies that may be made afraid to talk to analysts at all.'

[snip]

Pitt, while representing large U.S. accounting firms, also criticized an SEC proposal that sought to avoid conflicts of interest among auditors whose firms also provide consulting services.

Don't even feel like saying Cheers,

Svejk

[marcos]

Pues, te imaginas que me has visto postando bueno y sano, eh ... jó jó ... la cruda - no problema, the secret is drinking of water before sleep, and the liberal use of Cholula sauce on morning eggs .... yeah, Cinco de Mayo ... we did win that one, actually, it just took a few years of struggle following the defeats which followed the victory of Puebla ... there were Good Americans beside us towards the end, too, they marched in the parades in el DF ["American Legion', it was called i think, all volunteers, all fine examples of the best of their nation's ideals taking root in the mind of man] ... this may be one reason the chicanos have adopted cinco de mayo as significant - it was the first sign that their position could begin recovery, following the atrocities perpetrated against them in the wake of the brutally abrogated treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo, the murders and theft of land having somewhat abated by '62, since they had largely accomplished their task of furthering the anglo Manifest Destiny thing, and the US was at the time involved in an internal dispute .... to the chicano it is a big deal, to the mexicano he is reminded at this time of the Abraham Lincolns, the Mark Twains, the Jimmy Carters, and yes - i know you will insist - the Menckens ... they're not all Nixons, nor slimy Oliver Norths, supporters of the feudal lords ... when Bushito el hijo says 'juntos podemos' - does he mean that? ... i mean really mean it ... or could he just be acting a part? ... wouldn't be the first time they had an actor in the white house ... and reflect that when the mouth-breathers were dealing drugs and trading arms to the ayatollahs to get funds to lay mines among the children of the latino, that his daddy was the vice-prez .... i dunno, it looks up in the air at this time ... but perhaps i digress.

Carlota - only Carlota i know is a german, the on-again off-again for-twenty-years main squeeze of a friend who is among other things a guide to varias ruinas .... now he is no prize in all respects, that is for sure, but you know if she was the only german i ever knew i should be likely to have formed an image of the nationality leaning no small degree toward the arbitrary and flighty ... but then - the fact strikes us plain as day does it not - she is a female, and thusly not to be understood by the rational.

The church - aw man, leave 'em alone ... i know how you feel on that, well i've felt the same in the past ... got over it though ... one reason - one of the most genuinely positive forces i saw in one situation was a priest, he had strong diplomatic talent and the paz y justicia gangsters couldn't shoot him because, well, he was a priest, lol ... it's not all bad imho ... remember that it was the fantasy of la Virgen who rallied the campesinos behind Padre Hidalgo, who was - ahem - a priest.

Salinas - well he's long gone, and his loot too ... how is Fox going to make out, that's the question ... i don't keep up on the news lately ... interesting thing last night - bunch of latinos and one chinese sitting around talking about a provincial premier who was born in India ... provincial election here in a few days [BC] ... the more local the politics, the dirtier they get, this seems always to be true.

Chiapas - long long story there, and i tire of typing ... no easy solutions there, and each micro-situation has its own history and its own interests with their own valid and invalid arguments ... people just have to learn to get along, that's basic to it ... education - all comes down to that ... we need a new Vasconcelos, and maybe a Twain or Mencken to rise from the sierra ... as for me, i am being sent to the garden ... 'a tus ordenes, Capitana', aaargh

[X Y Zebra]

ROFLMAO...

Aaaaahhh I have not heard so many of those expressions in a long, long time, La Poeta is right, it seems you did not drink enough to impair your writing, or else, your writing can withstand any kind of drinking [or else, --again-- your drinking is what gives your writing mastery -ggg-]

We should clarify for the Anglo audience that Cinco de Mayo is yet again another way for the Mexican government to give the populace, "atole con el dedo". Some Anglos even think it is the date of the independence, (courtesy of cerveza Corona's advertising, or rather the anglo interpretation of the same, "bajo la influencia").

It was a day that will live in glory [of the mind of the politicos --gg--] since briefly (and somehow) the Mexican Army managed to defeat the proud Napoleonic army. But if memory serves me right, in the ensuing days, the French beat the crap of the federales and installed in power, their puppet emperor Maximiliano and the his wife Carlota. Imagine how things were that she became totally crazy.

A fairy tale...

http://www.vivacincodemayo.org/history.htm

Cinco de Mayo, se gano la batalla, pero no la guerra...


And out of this it set the stage for "Bomberito" Juarez -GGG- to come back and re-gain power. Ah yes, the glory days of El Gobierno Laico, who took from the Catholic church the ill gotten wealth and power in and of Mexico...

A little closer to the truth... Remembering that... La historia la escribe quien gana la guerra.

http://www.nacnet.org/assunta/spa5may.htm

An even a better one.... "Los valientes no asesinan"

Thus began the bloody, fratricidal Reform War of 1858-61, pitting liberals against conservatives and so named because of the Reform Laws that had curbed the power of the Church. The Liberals almost lost their leader two months after the conflict began. In March Zuloaga's forces entered Guadalajara and captured Juárez near the Palace of Justice. He was saved from a firing squad only through intervention of the poet Guillermo Prieto, who courageously thrust himself in front of Juárez, crying: "Brave men do not assassinate." The soldiers lowered their rifles and Juárez was able to escape to Manzanillo, where he re-kindled resistance.




http://www.mexconnect.com/mex_/history/jtuck/jtbenitojuarez.html

Only to see El Raton Loco Salinas de Gortari give the wealth and power back to the Vatican Evil... El pendulo del poder swings back and forth... between poor and rich, between right and left... between good and evil.

Then Salinas's fortunes took a dramatic turn for the better. As the Berlin Wall tumbled and former socialist countries now decided that capitalism was the wave of the future, Salinas made a bold move: he effectively canceled the Mexican Revolution.

His rejection of revolutionary principles, known by press pundits as salinastroika, took place in several areas -- political, economic, even religious. Where anticlericalism had long been a leading principle of the Mexican Revolution, Salinas completely reversed course. Nuns and priests could once more appear publicly in clerical garb, they could vote, the Church could own property, diplomatic relations were re-established with the Vatican, and religious schools were once more authorized.

El cabron raton, borracho en poder, le aplico una inyeccion intrapiernosa a la historia -gggg- in otherwords... he fornicated history itself, no less -ggg-...

http://www.mexconnect.com/mex_/history/jtuck/jtsalinas.html


and it gets better... (They even talk about your namesake, comandante Marcos --yes, I know it is not you, you told me so... Mi mama me dijo no creas todo lo que te digan... -ggg-)


Salinas's prestige had never been higher. He was only forty-four and a brilliant future was predicted for him -- in the international arena. Having achieved an economic miracle in Mexico, who would be better suited to become president of the World Trade Organization?

On the opening day of 1994 everything fell apart. Santayana wrote that those who do not learn from history are condemned to repeat it. When Echeverria's term ended, everybody hailed López Portillo as a savior. With the end of the disastrous Echeverria-López Portillo-de la Madrid cycle, it looked for a while like Salinas would be the new Moses. History was about to teach the Mexican people another harsh lesson.

It began on January 1, 1994, with an Indian revolt in Chiapas. With Salinas's version of agrarian "reform," with the implementation of NAFTA, the campesinos in Chiapas had reached a nadir of despair. No longer protected by the ejido system, their lands were being taken over by creditors and landlords. And how could they possibly compete with their new international "partners," the farmers of America's prosperous Middle West? So they sold whatever they had, bought guns, and took to the hills. Their leader, who called himself Subcomandante Marcos, was a white, upper-middle-class furniture magnate's son from Tampico who had absorbed French-style Marxism at UNAM and served with the Sandinistas in Nicaragua. ------> click here to get there---> http://www.mexconnect.com/mex_/zapat1.html


An interesting tale eh ? La historia esta entrelazada con los diferentes pueblos, mas de los que nos cuentan cuando estamos en la escuela no ?

Greed and fear they say, rules Wall Street...

More accurately, human nature with all its evil, greed, hunger for power and fear of losing it is what really drives man to execute the incredible feats that history shows us...

The more things change, the more things remain the same, in spite of the lessons history give us.

As Poet said, feliz seis de Mayo...

what happens the day after? - pues, we figger it out when we wake up tarde en la tarde, jijiji ... cuídate bien, chaparro ... cháu


LOL !!!

you too, take care and drink enough water, you'll need it para curarte la cruda. -gg-

[Josef Svejk]

<img src=http://www.georgegraham.com/reviews/naked3.jpg>

[August]

Hey Kevin, great to see you here.

Thanks for the trip down memmory lane!

P.S> I had responded to your messages on the BEER thread, but IH was doing some stuff and inadvertently deleted them<G> IF I could remember what I had posted, I would repost. Maybe tonight if I dip into the brew!

[Poet]

LOL! I'm glad it went well. You couldn't have been drinking too terribly much if you could produce a post with no spelling errors.

Feliz seis de Mayo.

[marcos]

'ME CRITICAN POR ARDOR' ... this was on the bumper of the truck of my cousin for years ... so maybe there is a little argentino that far north, maybe they got around, you know ... Cinco de Mayo, that's a chicano thing, we are chiapanecos here in this house, don't even admit to knowing any chilangos ... pero te digo esta cosita amigo - ¡hé bailado! ... y tomado, si verdad, un poquito ... discutido, evitado las luchas ... ojalá un divorcio también ... what happens the day after? - pues, we figger it out when we wake up tarde en la tarde, jijiji ... cuídate bien, chaparro ... cháu

[marcos]

<img src=http://mds-mall.com/shop/images/IG10088.JPEG>

... y que quiere estar pagado en estadounidense

equis, lo siento, tengo que ir 'orita .. luego

[Poet]

Hi equis, I'm glad you came out of hiding.

Y muchas gracias por el ayudo.

[X Y Zebra]

Ajaja (hmmm en este laptop no se sacarle los acentos, asi que uste me perdonara sen~or marcos, las faltas de Geografia).

Asi que ya estas instalado en este sitio... quizas se vuelva como el original SI ? ya veremos dijo el ciego... -g-


Ya veo que Poeta te respondio lo de los Argentinos...


Pero se le olvido tambien decir la definicion del Ego.... (el Ego y los Argentinos siempre estan entrelazados --gg--)


Bueno para que los AngloAmigos le entiendan.... We will say it in English:


Ego Definition:

The LITTLE Argentinean inside each one of us (hohohoho)

Well, we will forgive them as their beef is no doubt the best in the world, and their wines... my, my... you know I recently was there and I discovered that they are really like the Italians... these guys keep their best wines for themselves and give us peasants the left overs....

I have been busy lately.. not posting much anymore and now I joined this cantina de mala muerte... a ver que pasa ...

Good to read you marcos... This time I promise not to change names -g- (at least I will try...)

Maybe in celebration of the cinco de Mayo I should have named me.... er... Maximiliano ? LOL !!

[Poet]

Un argentino? Es un italiano que habla espanol, piensa que es frances, y secretamente desea ser ingles. -gg

[marcos]

Los alemanes ... seriously, the two best dancers we know [of the tango, salsa, whatever] are clearly of teutonic blood ... the lady teaches dance, and together they are a sight to see ... when they get going, people tend to give them room and then just watch, applaud to the rhythm, like that ... really something ... tonight - likely the cubanos, due to a certain cubana who will be there, and with whom i must be careful not to dance too much ... la mexicana is such a jealous species

Tell equis he should come over here ... tell us again what is an argentino -g- .... hasta luego ... cháu